Sixteen:Nine - All Digital Signage, Some Snark
00:20:57 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:20:57] S0: What about OLED? [00:20:58] S2: So OLED's an interesting one. I think the key stumbling block for OLED in the professional displays market has been the price as opposed to LCD. We're looking at around about 1.5 to 2x differential, which within the cost conscious mindset, especially in signage, but also in presentation displays as well, It has presented an obstacle to adoption. So OLED, we're looking at around sort of 1% of volumes across the global market in terms of volume. So, yeah, and really that's kind of stayed quite stable over the last few years. So hasn't ramped as perhaps was expected a few years ago. [00:21:49] S0: One thing that was intriguing to me was reading some of the stuff coming out of CES and then going to ISE and I went to the... Was it... It was the TCL booth, I believe. And they had a... Or was it a 120, 125 inches, something like giant, giant TV. And I was thinking, Okay, that I know what they're doing with these things. There's local dimming and everything else. And the the the visuals coming out of these displays are stunning. They look, you know, borderline OLED quality. [00:22:29] S2: Yeah. [00:22:30] S0: And at that form factor, as costs come down on manufacturing those things, they are starting to approach like very close in size to all in one LED displays that a lot of manufacturers have in their product lines to kind of simplify things for for meeting spaces, conference rooms and so on. Do see these LCDs getting some traction, kind of supplanting the all in one LEDs?
00:22:30 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:22:30] S0: And at that form factor, as costs come down on manufacturing those things, they are starting to approach like very close in size to all in one LED displays that a lot of manufacturers have in their product lines to kind of simplify things for for meeting spaces, conference rooms and so on. Do see these LCDs getting some traction, kind of supplanting the all in one LEDs? [00:23:05] S2: Do you know what, Dave? That's a really interesting point because we had a number of conversations at ISE around the opportunity for larger than 100 inches LCDs. I think my answer to those individuals was that there may be an opportunity for now. I think the price attrition that we're seeing on all in one LEDs will bring those displays into, if maybe not into price parity, then at least within the same kind of ballpark. [00:23:34] S0: Okay. [00:23:35] S2: But I think the other key issue with, let's take 120 inches LCD, for example, the logistics of it. If you're in a boardroom and you're on the 5th Floor, let's say, and you've got to fit 120 inches LCD into a lift, then, I mean, where we're based in Europe, I mean, that's absolutely not going to happen. Maybe in North America where you guys have your freight elevators and whatnot, but I think in terms of being able to install the display itself... [00:24:07] S0: You're not carrying [00:24:07] S2: that up [00:24:08] S0: Exactly. The
00:24:08 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard, Ted Romanowitz
[00:24:08] S0: Exactly. The [00:24:09] S2: And let's say someone does crack it on the floor as they're installing it, then you've got to replace the whole thing. Whereas with an LED, it's just one module that needs to be replaced. I think there's those challenges as well that will limit the opportunity that segment. [00:24:29] S0: Are you seeing much innovation when it comes to LCD and OLEDs? [00:24:35] S2: I would say in terms of the commercial LCD market, I mean, over the last few years, the key points of innovation have been, yeah, as you say, you know, OLED initially, eight ks resolution, 21 by nine, and then high brightness and kind of outdoor displays lumped into one. Those have really been the key points of development. Terms of market adoption, though, they haven't really taken off. Would say, you know, high brightness and outdoor is probably the best example, you know, accounted for around two to 4% of market volumes, whereas the rest are still lingering around sort of one to 2%. [00:25:14] S0: There was a lot of buzz and quite a bit of activity at ISE around electronic ink products. Yes. E paper products per check on the color side. [00:25:27] S1: Mhmm. [00:25:27] S0: They've gotten bigger. Yeah. There were 75 inch versions there. [00:25:31] S2: Yep. [00:25:32] S0: I had seen them earlier when I was over in Taiwan, and I thought, okay, this is interesting, but it's really early days, and this is kind of proof of concept more than anything else, because while they didn't look bad, they didn't look good.
00:25:32 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:25:32] S0: I had seen them earlier when I was over in Taiwan, and I thought, okay, this is interesting, but it's really early days, and this is kind of proof of concept more than anything else, because while they didn't look bad, they didn't look good. [00:25:49] S2: Sure, sure. Yeah, I think e paper is an interesting one and I think it presents a fantastic opportunity to the pro displays industry as a whole. I think there has been a bit of industry confusion around the purpose and the intended use case for e paper. And I think the point that really needs clarifying is that e paper is not here to replace LCD. I think in many ways it's there to complement LCD. [00:26:17] S0: Yes, there to replace print. [00:26:19] S2: It's there to replace print, exactly. And one of the key conversations around that exact point is, would using the kind of sixteen:nine aspect ratio be the most appropriate? Obviously, for signage customers that are used to digital signage, then yes. But for those end users that are deploying or replacing print signage, would actually like the A Series, for example, be a more appropriate sizing range to use. So I think industry is still kind of or this market segment is still kind of figuring some of those things out. But yeah, definitely a lot more show at ISE this year, which was fantastic to see. Even new brands as well, not only kind of new models from those brands that were already active in the space. So as I say, early adopter phase at the moment, but I think certainly a lot of industry potential.
00:26:19 · Morris Garrard, Dave Haynes
[00:26:19] S2: It's there to replace print, exactly. And one of the key conversations around that exact point is, would using the kind of sixteen:nine aspect ratio be the most appropriate? Obviously, for signage customers that are used to digital signage, then yes. But for those end users that are deploying or replacing print signage, would actually like the A Series, for example, be a more appropriate sizing range to use. So I think industry is still kind of or this market segment is still kind of figuring some of those things out. But yeah, definitely a lot more show at ISE this year, which was fantastic to see. Even new brands as well, not only kind of new models from those brands that were already active in the space. So as I say, early adopter phase at the moment, but I think certainly a lot of industry potential. [00:27:16] S0: It was interesting, though, because with all the buzz around it, I don't know that that many people, because they don't have reason to be paying that close attention to it, they don't understand that all of these color e paper displays are all coming from one manufacturer. And whether it's Samsung Sharp or Agile Display Solutions, whoever, they're remarketing and tweaking E Ink's product. Is there any other manufacturer out there that you've run into that's actually coming up with something that is also color e paper? I'm aware of some ESL manufacturers who are not using ink, but that's monochrome stuff.
00:27:16 · Dave Haynes, Morris Garrard
[00:27:16] S0: It was interesting, though, because with all the buzz around it, I don't know that that many people, because they don't have reason to be paying that close attention to it, they don't understand that all of these color e paper displays are all coming from one manufacturer. And whether it's Samsung Sharp or Agile Display Solutions, whoever, they're remarketing and tweaking E Ink's product. Is there any other manufacturer out there that you've run into that's actually coming up with something that is also color e paper? I'm aware of some ESL manufacturers who are not using ink, but that's monochrome stuff. [00:28:00] S2: Yeah, I would say really the pioneer is obviously ink. I have seen some Chinese facsimiles, but I would say generally, you know, the major brands that we work with working with the ink. [00:28:12] S0: Okay. Kind of tearing through stuff here out of necessity. I wanted to ask about projection. Where is that at?