two & a half gamers
00:40:09 · Darius Mora, Matej Lancaric, Jakub Remiar
[00:40:09] S0: 30% up to 40% if you're doing quite well. That's on the annual. And on the monthly and weekly, like yeah, it kind of swings wildly. Like on the monthly you could have like around 6% ish. On the weekly, really like I can't confidently say 1%. [00:40:24] S2: No, of course. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Jakub, we don't really need to even look at the retention. It's just different kinds of different [00:40:33] S1: know it's different model. Models. Model, Yeah, it's curious to me. [00:40:37] S0: Lot of people... [00:40:38] S1: This is going [00:40:38] S2: to look like shit. [00:40:40] S0: We don't even measure retention. It's not a metric we look at for a lot of us. For some it matters, but a lot is just like it's the renewal rate under subscription that really drives everything. [00:40:48] S1: Okay, okay. What's the other North Star metrics you are going for, like APIs? [00:40:58] S0: The biggest one is just the renewal rate, and then it's obviously the price points at which you can convert, so the average revenue per user and average revenue per subscriber. And then conversion rates like conversion from install to start trial and start trial to paying subscriber. [00:41:13] S1: Ah, okay. So basically a much faster bucket than the games industry. [00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at?
00:41:18 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at? [00:41:21] S1: Retention, for sure. Like it's much, much harder to kind of tack on retention because, you you're looking at top games having like 20% day 30 retention, and then users need to stay, you need to have very good live ops, meaning like recurring content that keeps them spending because our LTVs can reach thousands of dollars. Pretty much we don't care about some, subscription is just some kind of afterthought somewhere there. You have gotcha systems, usually boxes that can drive, like, for instance, my favorite game, which I'm playing yesterday, 1,500,000 a day spike on the new gotcha just because of that out of just like few, few thousands of users. So that's there. [00:42:02] S0: I think that's one major difference is that in the apps industry, we don't have whales. So if we have the, you you have the higher end, you have like a $40 subscription. [00:42:13] S1: My question will be not if you have whales, but like do you even have the depth of the economy for the whale to kind of manifest itself? [00:42:23] S0: We don't have the options for it. Really, we don't have the pricing and the monetization. We have one subscription No. On [00:42:29] S1: You take something like, I don't know, Clash of Clans, the economy is something like 100 ks plus, and you're still not at top level still. And you spend already 100 ks thousand dollars. [00:42:39] S0: That's insane. Yeah, that's more rewarding.
00:42:39 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar, Felix Braberg, Matej Lancaric
[00:42:39] S0: That's insane. Yeah, that's more rewarding. [00:42:42] S1: Have games, the biggest ones, you know, the Whiteout Survivor or Kingshot, the ones ads you're seeing everywhere pretty much. We have infinite economies where it's based on destruction of property, so what you have bought is being destroyed by other players, so there's infinite spending going on. [00:42:55] S3: Let's get back to Petting Spoons. Yeah, yeah, [00:43:00] S1: Four and a half. Yeah. [00:43:01] S0: I mean, in our best case scenario for us, what we would consider a whale is somebody who gets a weekly subscription and then keeps it for a year. Like that's a whale for us. [00:43:12] S1: But you know, like it's the other side of different coin because again, we have the problem with UA and distribution. The apps are, that's their forte. So [00:43:21] S2: that's Yeah, we the can borrow a lot of things from this side of the business, [00:43:26] S1: people are [00:43:27] S2: just not used to see this. It's not a lot of work, but it's different type of work. And these days UA managers are lazy, they won't do it. They just spend all the money the company has. But when you are a small company, you don't have the money, then you need to be very creative. And then how creative you can get is all the different kind of organic ways of doing stuff. Not so easy, but if you know what you are doing. [00:43:53] S0: You could also just go on TikTok, open 10 accounts, post 10 times a day to each account. You're you're gonna make it. It just requires your work.
00:43:53 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar, Felix Braberg, Matej Lancaric
[00:43:53] S0: You could also just go on TikTok, open 10 accounts, post 10 times a day to each account. You're you're gonna make it. It just requires your work. [00:44:01] S1: Matej, you want to take the screen with you, or... I can, yeah. Can. I actually [00:44:06] S3: wanted to ask one last question. [00:44:07] S2: Are you... You are here? Sorry. [00:44:09] S3: I wanted to ask one question, actually. Use and ratings for these apps. Right? What's the story there? Like, because I overheard a conversation that you were having at one of our breakfasts, how you essentially don't even take the bad reviews or like there's a lot of tricks you guys do there. [00:44:27] S0: Well, we can report bad reviews that don't align with some of the guidelines. So it said the review has to talk about the app specifically or some stuff within the app. I'm trying to report all the ones that just like I have a bunch of bad comments that just say this is not free, so my claim is like this is not about the app, this is just... [00:44:49] S1: So shoot down one star reviews this way?
00:44:49 · Jakub Remiar, Darius Mora, Matej Lancaric
[00:44:49] S1: So shoot down one star reviews this way? [00:44:51] S0: Yeah, like so that's one way. But something that's happening, like the kind of standard in reviews was like, okay, when you have the wow moment in the app, like when you deliver value, you show the review prompt. And they were like, know what? Let's move it. Let's show it right after the paywall, after the onboarding, before they even see the product because they just subscribed. Like they just want to get in there, so they'll click on whatever. And so that worked. And then like the reviews went up like next and the ratio of negative to positive stayed the same. So like, okay, our volume rate. And then we're like, wait a second, let's even put it before the paywall. So not just subscribers, but everybody fucking sees their review prompt. And Apple doesn't mind apparently. And we're like, now we have review prompts in the onboarding. [00:45:31] S1: You also tried review filtering of like two buttons, like five star and four stars? It's like four star goes to feedback, five star go to store and stuff like that. [00:45:38] S0: No, Apple doesn't like that because that's like manipulation. [00:45:41] S1: You like to do that all the [00:45:42] S2: time here at the industry. You know, you incentivize the five star rating and it's fine. You need to take it down before you are considered for featuring by Google or Apple, but then you can bring it back.
00:45:42 · Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:45:42] S2: time here at the industry. You know, you incentivize the five star rating and it's fine. You need to take it down before you are considered for featuring by Google or Apple, but then you can bring it back. [00:45:54] S0: Yeah. I mean, one thing is prompt them with a screen that kind of shows them like, Oh, we're a small indie dev team. Here's a picture of two people that are So we beg for review. And then we use emotional manipulation to get the good reviews. That sometimes works. There is another strategy of some... And I don't know how this actually well works, something we've been trying. So there's the website appadvice.com and they have apps gone free portion of the website. So every day they feature a couple of apps and then you make a deal with them. So you make the app free for a day and they'll feature you. And we did it one of our fitness apps and we got 10,000 installs in a day. So you don't get the revenue because it's free, but we obviously forced the revenue prompt down their throat. And so we got a couple of 105 star reviews. I'm still waiting to see, and this was a few weeks ago, so I'm still waiting to see how the Apple red flag algorithm, if they'll flag some of it or remove it. But so far it seems like we got a shit ton of five reviews and they're staying there. And they're all in The US. This is one way to like, you spike up, sacrifice one day of revenue for a couple of 105 reviews, that's worth it. [00:47:05] S2: That's worth it. Yeah. For sure. [00:47:07] S1: Interesting. Felix? So anything else you want to No. For me to share?