Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:13:21 · Lenny Rachitsky
[00:13:21] S0: I love the way you phrased it at the beginning, that the way you just said it, I'm like, "Oh wow, I get why someone would start." To listen to help people actually do this in day-to-day, what's the way to approach the way you phrase beginning that connection conversation?
00:13:38 · Becky Kennedy
[00:13:38] S1: The truth is the first step is a mindset. And I know that sounds annoying because it's like, "Just tell me what to do." And anyone who knows me knows, I love telling people script ideas, but we feel people's intention, not just their intervention. So the same intervention will be felt completely different based on our mindset. So if I'm going into a conversation with you, Lenny, and let's say, I don't know, I want you to do something for me. I'd like you to come water my non-existent plants. Okay? And I'm like, I'm going to connect to Lenny first. First I'm going to say, "Oh, how's it going? Tell me this thing about your life." And you just know that is in and of itself a transaction to get you to do the thing I want you to do. Not only is it not going to quote "Work," it's going to feel like dirty to you. You're going to feel it and it's going to feel off. So the mindset we need to be in, which is so hard, and I talk a good game, but it's hard for me too. Okay? Is trying to get into a kind of without an agenda mindset, even if it's for 30 seconds with someone. Being present with someone without an agenda is increasingly hard to do, but that is what connection is about. No one wants something of me. They just kind of see me or they're recognizing something I'm doing or they kind of plop down on the couch next to me. And so what could that look like with your kid? It's often very, very simple things. Okay? And it's going to feel really small, especially anyone who works a lot where we get so addicted to accomplishing and dopamine. It's sitting next to your kid and putting your hand on their back, literally, for longer than feels natural. It's saying to your kid, "I'm happy to see you." And that's it. Such a nice thing to say when your kid comes home from school or you come home for work or first thing in the morning. It's watching your kid play and describing what they're doing instead of peppering them with questions, "Oh, you're making a tall tower." Versus, "Oh my goodness, is that a fire station? Oh my goodness, we can make the best fire station in the world." And I hear myself say that because I can say that, but it's not connection actually.
00:15:37 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
At work, it's probably saying, "Hey, tell me a little bit about your long weekend." And not kind of counting down the seconds for them to finish so you can tell them what to start on this week, but kind of giving yourself permission to say, "Can I actually just kind of drop down into that moment?" Right? And so I think it's the mindset and then it's actually something that doesn't have an agenda, that's just about seeing someone, noticing someone in a really, really small way. [00:16:04] S0: I love this idea of just the mindset. And that's such a powerful reframe of this is don't think about what are the correct words to say. It's just actually just feel, "Okay, I just want to connect with you first for 30 seconds."
00:16:04 · Lenny Rachitsky, Becky Kennedy
[00:16:04] S0: I love this idea of just the mindset. And that's such a powerful reframe of this is don't think about what are the correct words to say. It's just actually just feel, "Okay, I just want to connect with you first for 30 seconds." [00:16:15] S1: Yeah. And I want to reveal something about myself. Right? So one of the things I think about is that efficiency and relationship building are often in opposition. We're doing one or the other. And one of the things I've learned the very, very hard way about myself, especially since I've been working, the way I've been working the last couple of years, is my efficiency is kind of reinforced at work. Right? And a lot of us who can be very efficient and get things done, we can have a little morality about it. We listen to someone's story, we're like, "Come on, get to the point." When that person in our life is like, "The whole point is that I want to tell you the whole story." And I think if anyone's listening and thinking, "Yeah, I'm kind of an efficiency oriented person, dropping into relationship mode takes real intention." And it's hard, especially if a big part of your life, the efficiency is reinforced. So if it feels awkward and slow. And I always call it with my kids, my best time just feels low stim. It just feels so low stim. I'm like, "Is this right? Am I doing this right?" That's probably a sign I am because not much is happening and I'm not being efficient with my time. I'm just in kind of relationship building mode.
00:16:15 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:16:15] S1: Yeah. And I want to reveal something about myself. Right? So one of the things I think about is that efficiency and relationship building are often in opposition. We're doing one or the other. And one of the things I've learned the very, very hard way about myself, especially since I've been working, the way I've been working the last couple of years, is my efficiency is kind of reinforced at work. Right? And a lot of us who can be very efficient and get things done, we can have a little morality about it. We listen to someone's story, we're like, "Come on, get to the point." When that person in our life is like, "The whole point is that I want to tell you the whole story." And I think if anyone's listening and thinking, "Yeah, I'm kind of an efficiency oriented person, dropping into relationship mode takes real intention." And it's hard, especially if a big part of your life, the efficiency is reinforced. So if it feels awkward and slow. And I always call it with my kids, my best time just feels low stim. It just feels so low stim. I'm like, "Is this right? Am I doing this right?" That's probably a sign I am because not much is happening and I'm not being efficient with my time. I'm just in kind of relationship building mode. [00:17:30] S0: What I think about as you're talking about this is the best people I've worked with that are most effective at work are the people that are really good at this, that you feel like really listen, really care, just aren't rushed. And so I could totally see the power here. [00:17:44] S1: Yeah.
00:17:44 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:17:44] S1: Yeah. [00:17:46] S0: So one of the core principles you teach, the name of your book and the name of your product and community and everything you built is "Good Inside." I'm curious if that's a useful lens in the work environment too. You teach kids are good inside, no matter their behavior, they may be having a hard time, but they're still good inside. Is that useful in work at all? Are people always still good inside? I imagine not always.