Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:05:44 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:05:44] S1: I think Good Inside, which is kind of I guess the company and the method around all the things I've thought about is known for helping parents with parenting struggles and different things that are going on with our kids at various ages. But at the end of the day, it's a set of core principles that help us better understand human beings, ourself, the core relationships we're in, why we do the things we do and why we act the way we do in certain systems. And the system I tend to focus on the most is the family system. But the workplace is another system, a marriage is a system, sibling relationships are a system, extended family over the holidays, that's a system. And once you start to think through a lens of understanding how we operate in the system, any good principle can then be applied to any system. And I'm very oriented around efficiency also. So to me, what Good Inside really gives people is a way to think about themselves and the way to think about leadership. And whether we're talking about leadership in parenting or leadership in the workplace, it's actually the exact same principles that can be applied. And the good news for that is whether you're a parent, you're a leader at work, you're both, learning one system and applying it to multiple areas becomes a very efficient way to think about showing up in our relationships in a way that feels better to everyone. [00:07:02] S0: Awesome. Okay. I love that explanation. I have another lens that's- [00:07:06] S1: Oh, okay.
00:07:06 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:07:06] S1: Oh, okay. [00:07:07] S0: ... maybe funny, maybe too real. So I have a former podcast guest, Shreyas Doshi. He's one of my favorite product thinkers. He's been on the podcast a couple times. He's got this brand that most adults in the corporate environment are really just babies in disguise. They look like adults, they act like adults, but they're really babies. For example, they want to always be the center of attention. They don't want to share stuff they've accumulated. They want to keep their resources, their budget, their people. They get irrationally upset about things not going their way. Even when it's just a terrible idea, they're just like, "Nah, that was my idea. I wanted this thing to happen." There's also just power struggles and, "No, no, I want this to happen because it's what I want." And they often just need people to fix things for them. For example, today my toddler, he just grabbed this Yoto player that we have and he threw it across the room. He's like, " Pick it up." So with that, I think understanding how babies think and toddlers think and operate is helpful in the corporate environment where we think we're working adults, but a lot of times they're more like babies. How does that resonate?
00:08:15 · Becky Kennedy, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:08:15] S1: I guess my most generous interpretation of what you just said is slightly different but similar, which is that all humans need the same things. Whether we're one or five or 45 or 85, we tend to need the same things. When the needs are not being met, we all tend to express ourselves in kind of ineffective, less than ideal ways. And so maybe that's my interpretation of agreeing with what you're saying. [00:08:39] S0: Awesome. Okay. Okay. So let's get into the first topic lesson. Let's talk about the power of repair, one of your more important and impactful lessons that you teach parents. Explain the toddler, kids version of this and how this is useful in raising kids and then just how this might translate into a corporate environment.
00:08:57 · Becky Kennedy
[00:08:57] S1: Yeah. I think repair is kind of the number one relationship strategy we have. And the thing that keeps us from repairing, which really is the idea of going back to a person after a moment we didn't feel proud of, taking responsibility for our part, maybe acknowledging the impact it had on them and talking about what you would do differently the next time, is actually this very false idea that there's a goal to be perfect. Right? And in our family, we say something, we actually now say it at work, "Perfect is creepy." I just think it encapsulates... You don't even want to be perfect. It's actually very creepy. Only non-humans can ever be perfect. And what defines kind of the human condition is that we want to do well and we mess up over and over again. And one of the things I remember learning in clinical psych grad school was that the thing that really differentiated secure attachment, which is the nature of a relationship you really want to have with your kid is the presence of repair. And I remember the professor continuing to talk and I was kind of stopped in my tracks thinking, "What? Oh, so secure attachment isn't defined by getting it right all the time? Secure attachment is just defined by, we're all going to mess up, but secure attachment has an adult who's willing to repair?" That felt very hopeful to me because it felt like something I could realistically get good at. And over and over, whether it's with your kid, when you say to them, "Hey, sorry I yelled." Some version of, "I had a stressful day at work. That wasn't your fault and I'm working on staying calmer even when I'm upset." Or we say to someone, I don't know, on our team, "Hey, earlier in the meeting, I totally cut you off. I used a really harsh tone. Honestly, I did disagree with what you're saying, but it's no excuse for me to talk to you the way I did. Stuff was going on before the meeting. I'm sorry. I'm going to work on that." There's just nothing to reestablish trust and connection like repair. And when trust and connection are reestablished, then whether it's your kid or someone at work, they cooperate better, you don't get into conversations that are kind of run on conversations that are really an act of defensiveness and you can just get a lot more done.
00:11:05 · Lenny Rachitsky
[00:11:05] S0: There's kind of an associated concept you talk about, which is around connecting before correcting, which reminds me of radical candor a little bit of just this idea of challenge directly but care deeply. Talk a bit about this concept of connecting before correcting.
00:11:19 · Becky Kennedy
[00:11:19] S1: Yeah. Well, I'll use kind of... let's take it out of parenting and work because I think it really shows the importance of connecting in all of our lives. So all of us say about our kids, "My kid doesn't listen. My kid doesn't listen to me." Right? But if you picture me on the couch and let's say my... I have three kids, they're all sleeping now and I'm finally settling in for now the two minutes I have before I pass out because I'm tired. And let's say my husband comes out and just says, "Becky, we have to do our taxes." And you're watching the scene and you see me say, "Whoa, I just sat down to read a book." And he goes, "You don't listen to me. You have a listening problem and if you don't do the taxes with me right now, I'm taking away your dessert for a week." Okay? Lenny, I'm pretty sure no one would tell me I have a listening problem. They probably say, I have a husband problem if that happened. Right? They'd be like, "Wow. You're..." But we do that to our kids and we do that at work all the time. Now, let's say the same situation happened and he said, "Whoa, I realize didn't tell you this. We have to get our taxes done tonight. You look like you're just settling in to that book. Oh, can we get on top of this together? I know we're on the same team. Can we figure this out?" The chances that I will do taxes just skyrocketed. Right? Why? Because he sees me in my reality as a full human being, not just as an object in his world to get something done. He kind of joins my world where I'm embedded in my own priorities and by doing that forms a bridge, that's what connection is. So I can kind of walk back over to his world with him to do something that's a priority in his world. So connection, it first all just feels good anyway, but it's not such a kind of soft topic. Connection is what forms a bridge between two people so they can act together in the same interest. And so whether you're thinking about your kid not listening or thinking about things at work, coming back to connection is really the foundation for both cooperation and at work, even productivity.