00:26:57 · Guillaume Moubeche, Alan Chang
[00:26:57] S1: Okay. And how do you make sure, like, to always attract the the best talents? When... Whenever you started the company, like, how did you find, like, the first 10 people, and you knew that they were gonna be, like, rock stars of of the company? Like, what was your process in selecting and hiring? [00:27:16] S0: Top people wanna work on hard problems. Right? And they also wanna work on other great people, and they wanna be rewarded for it. So the way I think about it is very simple. Right? Like, when we started the company, you know, Charles and I were the only believers, right, in the company. And then you convince a third believer, a fourth believer, a fifth believer. Right? And that could be, you know, people who are trying to team, or it could be investors. Right? Now number of believers to today, it's like... It's it's harder than two. Right? But, you know, it it... That's how you grow. Right? And yeah, it's like we we we convince people by, you know, demonstrating a track record or, you know, you can see... And when we're nothing, we are no track record. Right? We can just, you know, say, okay. This is our previous track record. You know? Perhaps we can extend our previous track record to this new company. But now we have like a few years of, you know, financial track record that we can show the people who who are considered joining. Right? But, you know, as as we grow the company, you know, it gets easier and easier to convince top people to join.
00:27:16 · Alan Chang, Guillaume Moubeche
[00:27:16] S0: Top people wanna work on hard problems. Right? And they also wanna work on other great people, and they wanna be rewarded for it. So the way I think about it is very simple. Right? Like, when we started the company, you know, Charles and I were the only believers, right, in the company. And then you convince a third believer, a fourth believer, a fifth believer. Right? And that could be, you know, people who are trying to team, or it could be investors. Right? Now number of believers to today, it's like... It's it's harder than two. Right? But, you know, it it... That's how you grow. Right? And yeah, it's like we we we convince people by, you know, demonstrating a track record or, you know, you can see... And when we're nothing, we are no track record. Right? We can just, you know, say, okay. This is our previous track record. You know? Perhaps we can extend our previous track record to this new company. But now we have like a few years of, you know, financial track record that we can show the people who who are considered joining. Right? But, you know, as as we grow the company, you know, it gets easier and easier to convince top people to join. [00:28:32] S1: I think in the early days when you when you first raised, you said yes to a term sheet, and very quickly afterwards, you received one at a much higher valuation. Did you, like, regret taking, like, the the lower valuation first?
00:28:32 · Guillaume Moubeche, Alan Chang
[00:28:32] S1: I think in the early days when you when you first raised, you said yes to a term sheet, and very quickly afterwards, you received one at a much higher valuation. Did you, like, regret taking, like, the the lower valuation first? [00:28:51] S0: Yeah. So we received several time sheets, and we basically took a term sheet where we're happy with the terms. But yeah, there was there was like... We knew there was another investor that was willing to bid higher. We regret it? Yes. Obviously. Right? But I think I think because we said yes, we had to honor it. [00:29:25] S1: And is the valuation the only thing you look at whenever you you raise? [00:29:30] S0: I think valuation and governance. Right? We don't wanna give control... Away control of the company. I think that's very important. But otherwise, yeah, valuation's, like, the key key thing. [00:29:45] S1: Can you expand a little bit more on on governance? Like, what is okay, what is not okay to give? Like, how do you see this, basically? [00:29:54] S0: I think, ideally, you get to give away nothing. Okay. So that would ideal. [00:30:01] S1: No board seats or or just observers and no voting no voting seats?
00:30:01 · Guillaume Moubeche, Alan Chang
[00:30:01] S1: No board seats or or just observers and no voting no voting seats? [00:30:07] S0: Yeah. I did it. Yes. We we are probably closer to that spectrum than than... I've also seen companies where effective investors have majority control, and I don't think they are... It's very, like, running a company is not a democracy. You can't run a you can't run a company based on committees. It doesn't work. So what you got to do is that you have to ensure the most competent leader is leading the company, and you have to give them all the power to do it. The problem is... Now this is... Obviously, this is not true for all investors, but you have a lot of investors that think, have very... For some reason, very high confidence in their... Of their opinions, even though they know nothing. And that's the most dangerous vessel. Basically, you know, there's like mid... There's midwit meme. Right? This IQ meme. So you have like very smart people on the right. You have, you know, low IQ people on the left. And they... They probably... Both of them would say something like, okay. They found this majority control. Right? Let them let them alone. And then you have the middle investors that will like, oh, we need governance. We need blah blah. Right? We need control. All that all that stuff. Right? So you wanna avoid... So basically, either avoid working with those investors or don't give them the ability to, you know, change the course of the company. Right?
00:31:39 · Guillaume Moubeche, Alan Chang
[00:31:39] S1: And how do you find, like, such investors? Do you, like, straight from the first meeting, say that governance is kind of like a a non negotiable? Or, like, how do you approach it when when raising funds? [00:31:53] S0: We we discuss it during timeshare stage. Alright? We just make it very clear, like, this is a red line for us. [00:31:59] S1: Okay. Okay. Okay. And did you learn that from Nick, or was it something that [00:32:05] S0: Yeah. Like, Nick... I think Nick shares... I believe he shares some of his. Yeah. But also, I speak to other, you know, entrepreneurs, both ones that they have control and both... And ones that they don't. And I I I... So far, I haven't met a single entrepreneur that doesn't agree with me. [00:32:25] S1: And do you feel that the one who give away control are the one who chose it? Or do you feel it's because they kind of like had no leverage and hence no choice... [00:32:36] S0: I think they were young and naive. Okay. [00:32:42] S1: Okay. Okay. Okay. And whenever you you raised from investors, do... Like, how exactly do you do, like, your own due diligence with the investor you're gonna brought in?
00:32:42 · Guillaume Moubeche, Alan Chang
[00:32:42] S1: Okay. Okay. Okay. And whenever you you raised from investors, do... Like, how exactly do you do, like, your own due diligence with the investor you're gonna brought in? [00:32:56] S0: I mean, like, I think the key thing is, like, do you do you like the guy? Right? You know? Is this some... Someone you can work with? Like, and do they listen? Do they... Can you reason with her? That? Like... Because ultimately, as an investor, like, they are not building the company. Right? However, like, you know, as much as you like... Like, there's always, like, a little bit of investor confidence in a company. Right? The question is just how much? So you want them, like like, you want them to be reasonable and logical, both in good times and bad times. And how do you test that? And I think it's pretty clear. Right? Speak When to someone, like, you can sense whether they're reasonable or not. Right? And just by having conversation. [00:33:55] S1: But how do you know that during bad times, they're gonna react in a similar way? [00:34:00] S0: I don't. Right? But if, however, in good times, which is, you know, most... Like, during times, you say, just definitely in good times. Yeah. If they can't be reasonable, then they definitely won't be reasonable at bad times. [00:34:15] S1: Okay. Makes makes sense. And what would you say is, like, the the biggest problem that you are trying to solve right now for your company? [00:34:27] S0: Convince more top people to join, And that's why I'm here.