Founders in Arms
00:32:00 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:32:00] S1: Mercury was 125 x revenue in 2021. [00:32:05] S0: You know, we all kind of been there, but, you know, then since like '22 that everything, you know, just falls through the the cliff. Right? So that... Then there's a couple years our valuation is flat or or, you know, a lot of company... Most of company actually did down round if they didn't raise money in 2021. So, you know, we... We're able to grow out of the the valuation trap, you know, last two years ago, and and now we're kind of well above the water. But the multiple went to, like, from a 100 times revenue to 10 times gross profit. Right? So it it is a 90% contraction in terms of multiple. I don't think... I don't know if the AI company gonna experience the same, but I I definitely don't think, like, you know, raising at, you know, 50 times revenue is is is the norm. Right? I think it's gonna be rationalized to the to the public market multiple, even as AI company. And also, like, you know, most of fintech company today is not growing slow. Right? Revolut is growing very fast. You know, we're growing very fast. You guys are growing very fast. So, you know, like, it... You know, we're talking about doing $1,200,000,000 revenue still growing close to a 100%. Right? So it's it's... I think, like, you know, it's it's... The the gross adjusted multiple is also gonna get rationalized as you scale. [00:33:25] S1: I guess the question is when? [00:33:28] S0: That's for the investor to worry about. [00:33:30] S1: Yeah. Exactly.
00:33:30 · Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri, Jack Zhang
[00:33:30] S1: Yeah. Exactly. [00:33:31] S2: I... By the way, I saw this... The tweet about Stripe, you know, looking to acquire you. I was actually wondering what the story was behind there. Like, how did that come about? You know, what was the backstory? I don't think you mentioned that in your tweet. Right? [00:33:44] S0: I think it's, you know, we basically operating a global money movement infrastructure where Stripe is very much focused on pay in, right? And the two company is a complementary infrastructure, but obviously went on the different direction after we rejected the acquisition. And we imagine like Air Wallet combined with Stripe today, it's like a global banking plus global payments platform is a pretty powerful combination. Right? So I think ultimately, that we we feel the, you know, the future of the company is is still kind of have a different vision. Right? So Stripe wanted to grow the GDP of the Internet, that we wanted to, you know, help entrepreneurs globally to to grow and operating every corner in the world. And we we wanna be the the financial operating system for global businesses. So essentially, like, alternative to to Citi or HSBC. So, like, from that point of view, we're more like a global banking start up, whereas Stripe is more like a payment start up and then focus on the the the growth of the GDP. [00:34:55] S1: What what year was this? [00:34:57] S0: '20... End of twenty eighteen, early twenty nineteen.
00:34:57 · Jack Zhang, Immad Akhund
[00:34:57] S0: '20... End of twenty eighteen, early twenty nineteen. [00:34:59] S1: Okay. So this is only like three or four years into the journey. Yeah. Obviously, it would have been like a, you know, a life changing amount of money. Like, what's... You know, what made you say no? Like, why not just say, like, yeah, you know, this is a good three years, four years. I get a massive exit. I can kinda, you know, don't have to deal with Keith Rubois' tweets from now on.
00:35:21 · Jack Zhang
[00:35:21] S0: Yeah. I think there's definitely a bit of a naiveness of the founder, only three years in a journey that, you know, we... Once... You know, the company's volume growing from, you know, like a million, you know, to to a a few billion dollars. Right? So that... It's like a phenomenal growth. And I'm very early in the journey, and the the kind of ultimate thing I think about is, like, it's a five year lockup. I will be, like, 39, you know, by the time the lockup finish. And do I have the the the grit? Do I have the energy and passion to do another start up that can creating a massive business? Probably not. I mean, like, it's it's it's kind of like if you look at fintech, it's... You know, I was... It's very hard to start early early stage fintech anymore. Right? Because, you know, you guys started... You know, you guys Revolut, us, you know, Brax and... You know, we all almost started in that same period. There's, like, a window of opportunity to get raising venture capital money to kind of... There's a gap in the market because the the the banking industry, it's... Need need revolution or or innovation. I think they're just a very unique opportunity that you can keep building a compounding business, not only for the next decade, but but even for the next thirty, forty years. Right? In a very, very large market, you know, all these businesses that today, you know, like a Revolut or or or you guys or us can keep compounding for the for the next, you know, ten, twenty, thirty years. Right? So it's very hard to find a... To kinda fund a company like this. And I just can't imagine I can do it again. So I'd rather it's to see it through. Right? So you only leave your thirties once. And, you know, what if that you can build a massive business and all you actually don't enjoy the the post acquisition life and then you regret it? Right? What are you gonna do? So just like Yeah.
00:37:16 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:37:16] S1: It's very hard to capture, like like, lightning in a bottle. I mean, like, you know, what you just said, Jack, is probably, like, pretty irrational to a lot of people because, like, you weren't like, oh, yeah. I could retire and, like, stay on... Be on a beach or, like, enjoy family life. You were just like, oh, man. I'd have to make another business, and that would be annoying. So it is [00:37:35] S0: fear of missing out. Right? It's a fear of not living the most of your life. Yeah. And, you know, ultimately, it's not about money. I I live in Melbourne, and the the the the expense level is, like, 10% of San Francisco today. And, you know, everything in The US become, like, so expensive, and and the the life is pretty good. Alright? So I think I made a decent amount of money when I'm 30, and I'm not, like, desperate in in making money either. And end of the day, this is not a financial decision. Like, if I sold a company today, I'm worth a lot more than than what I'm now. Right? I'm probably worth 2 to $3,000,000,000 if I'm holding the Stripe stock. Now, like, you know, I'm I'm still doing quite well, but but, you know, ultimately, it's not about money. It's it's it's it's about fear of of not living the most and not able to live your life. [00:38:29] S1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:29 · Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri, Jack Zhang
[00:38:29] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:30] S2: Yeah. I think founders... I mean, I think a lot of founders don't make financial decisions when they sell. Like, I think they more making decisions like, do I want to keep working on this? And, like, you know, like, am I really excited about working on this? Right? Like, I don't know. That's my my view. Emma, would you agree with that? Like, they're like, do I actually [00:38:47] S1: wanna keep working [00:38:48] S2: on this? [00:38:48] S1: Yeah. I think there is, like, a level of irrationality to building a big company because there's, you know, when you get to a certain size, you always have the option to exit. [00:38:58] S0: Mhmm. [00:38:58] S1: And like to keep going, I mean, yeah, it's... I agree with Jack that like, you know, you wanna have the biggest impact, but like, I don't know. It's not, like, fun every day. Right? You're waking up and, like, you gotta deal with, like, your your SF morning meeting and your, like, Australia evening meeting. Like, you know, you're working, like, a lot. You're doing the 20 hiring things. Like, it's a it's a lot. So there's, like, definitely a level of, like, irrationality. I always think about it personally for me. It's like, you know, it's very similar to Jack's thinking. It's like, I have one life. Like, you know, I wanna have the biggest impact possible and help the most people possible. [00:39:34] S0: And also, like, a lot of founder are weird in a way that they're just very good at enduring pain. And, like, you know, to [00:39:40] S1: a of