Founders in Arms
00:25:22 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang, Rajat Suri
[00:25:22] S1: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, didn't seem to hurt Deal for sure. I mean, they kept... They raised another round after after all that news and [00:25:29] S0: Oh, we also raised a round after that as well. Right? So... And we we... Our leading investor additions, so, you know, Lee continue to buy buy our secondaries, you know, post that event. And and we can... We win some of the very biggest customer in the world after that, which we're going to announce very soon. So, you know, all in all, I think it's just a good experience for me to continue to build resiliency in in a company and then continue to build a better brand of Airwallex that for the, you know, for the customers in The US and globally. [00:26:02] S2: Great. You're taking the high road. I I I don't do that typically, but but that's great. And and if it's working, it's great. You know? I I think... Yeah. The more successful you are, the more you'll have this you'll see, so it's just part of it. [00:26:18] S1: That's sad. Alright. Maybe maybe change a change of subject. Yeah. What were... Jack, as you as you've kind of scaled the company, what are some of the things that you feel like, you know, were like weaknesses for you as a CEO that you've had to like learn and overcome and like big lessons that you've kind of taken as you've scaled the company?
00:26:38 · Jack Zhang
[00:26:38] S0: I think we early days, we made a lot of recruitment mistakes, right? So hiring people like not individual contributors, focus on territorial or meaningful kind of more kind of personal interest than a company interest. Right? So that is really bad for a start up, and I think many company makes such mistakes. And I think as you sort of scale the company, you know, the recruitment is now becoming less important. So even like now at sort of 2,000 people that I I sort of almost like spending the, you know, same amount of time, if not more, to focus on recruitment. I think we did relax that for a little bit, but then, you know, we we end up have to pay the price. So I think, you know, that nobody wanna do to do 20 interviews a week and... But, you know, as a founder, you probably should just need to keep doing that. And we also, like, made pretty bad mistakes in kind of going global too early, you know, as an infrastructure company that we have to invest a lot to set up the compliance and the legal, the risk functions globally. And and and then when we kind of premature in, you know, building the infrastructure that just launching commercial function too early is is, you know, basically the folks that's just kind of sitting there not doing much for a year because the infrastructure actually take not just like a few months to build out, I mean, takes actually years to build out, getting the regulatory approval and and all that. So I think lesson also learned that if you're actually building something infrastructure space, that it's really important to make sure that you test the market from a product market fee from... Product market fee point of view that before you go big on it.
00:28:24 · Rajat Suri, Immad Akhund
[00:28:24] S2: And so, you know, I think... So it sounds like talent was a major issue for you, you know, just getting that right. How... You said you have 2,000 members of your team now. Right? Like, how... How's your, like, leadership team structured? Like, how how have you figured out, like, executive hiring in a global team? Because that's something that I've never dealt with. Maybe Matt's not dealt with it either. Yeah. How do you strike I actually talking [00:28:47] S1: to Jack about this. It was a couple of months ago, and he was saying how how hard it is to get exec talent because you've got all of these time zones and you've got... You... People have to, you know, work some insane hours and stuff. So, yeah, I think there's definitely some unique challenges.
00:29:02 · Jack Zhang, Immad Akhund
[00:29:02] S0: Yeah. So I think I think the most difficult thing is actually time zone, right? So we we we have 26 offices globally, and we have a third of our executive in San Francisco, a third in Singapore, and the rest is, like, distributed everywhere. You know, I'm based out of London, and my CPO, Shannon, based out of Melbourne. And and then we have, you know, folks in New York as well. So it's it's hard. I mean, only time that we can get together, you know, it's it's like, you know, it's difficult for for most of everybody. Right? So... And then, you know, most likely to be very early in San Francisco, very late in San Francisco, most likely to be 11PM. Right? So not many is active in The US wanted to deal with that from the get go, especially the the best talent. Right? So they have a lot of choices, and to kind of making that commitment is a is a is a big investment from from the the sort of personal life perspective. And I guess that you just have to keep trying to find a person that believe in that vision and and wanted to, you know, feel more passionate about running a global business, feel more, you know, connect to that vision that I wanted to build this global platform. And it's, you know, it's it's definitely like 10 times harder than than a normal recruitment process. [00:30:31] S1: Is there a type of profile that you find that is excited about it? I feel like Americans are a little more insular, like, maybe Europeans or, like, you know, Europeans living in America. Is there a profile that you find as, like, yeah, people, like, really excited about
00:30:31 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang, Rajat Suri
[00:30:31] S1: Is there a type of profile that you find that is excited about it? I feel like Americans are a little more insular, like, maybe Europeans or, like, you know, Europeans living in America. Is there a profile that you find as, like, yeah, people, like, really excited about [00:30:45] S0: building global business? I I think think US, Australia, or or European doesn't doesn't really matter. It's just more to do with the the personnel that how connected they are to to you as a founder and then to the mission and vision of the company. [00:31:00] S2: Let's jump into the rapid fire. [00:31:03] S1: I can get started. What's the current trend of fashion that you think is a passing fad? [00:31:09] S0: I don't think the the valuation of AI company gonna last that long. [00:31:14] S2: Yeah. [00:31:14] S0: I mean, it's, you know, everything have to be based on future cash flow and EBITDA. Right? So everybody using the same financial model, I mean, unless I'm wrong. Right? So everybody have to discount their future earning, you know, back to today. I mean, I think there's definitely a lot of hard companies in AI, but I think ultimately, the valuation is going be rationalized in the proper markets. [00:31:39] S1: I guess the counterargument they would make is that they're growing like crazy, right? Like, I guess it depends what type of AI company, but Anthropic, like, the 10x in revenue.
00:31:39 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:31:39] S1: I guess the counterargument they would make is that they're growing like crazy, right? Like, I guess it depends what type of AI company, but Anthropic, like, the 10x in revenue. [00:31:48] S0: I think, I mean, you remember in 2021, we, as a fintech company, we're also growing crazy, and we all raised money at... You know, we raised money at close to 100x revenue. Right? So mean, I probably even higher [00:32:00] S1: Mercury was 125 x revenue in 2021.