00:50:53 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:50:53] S0: You and I were talking about the Luca Ferrari episode that I just did. A lot of what you just said is very similar to like Luca. He has this idea. He's like, hey, I don't really give a shit about pedigree. I wanna hire young people. He loves people that has no experience. And he goes, and then you find somebody who's young, talented, and hungry, and you saturate their capacity, which is exactly what you just said. It's like, we're all working. Like, I'm gonna give you more than you can handle. Why do you think you and Adam and Luca arrived at the same conclusion? And why is that so important? [00:51:19] S1: I think it's because we weren't able... We didn't have the cash to go and hire out these massive teams. At And the time, we didn't have kind of the pedigree or kind of background to be able to hire the best talent out there. Right? So we had to go get the people we could, and we had to torture them into greatness, kind of like Jensen Huang talks about. [00:51:36] S0: I love that idea. It's like I don't like giving... In in this biography called the NVIDIA way, Tae Kim has the line. He's like, don't like giving up on people. I'd rather torture them into greatness. And you get to the end of your book, and he's talking about... He wakes up every day. He looks in the mirror. He's like, why do I suck so much? And this is even after I think he has the most valuable company in the world. It's like, oh, he tortured himself into greatness too.
00:51:36 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:51:36] S0: I love that idea. It's like I don't like giving... In in this biography called the NVIDIA way, Tae Kim has the line. He's like, don't like giving up on people. I'd rather torture them into greatness. And you get to the end of your book, and he's talking about... He wakes up every day. He looks in the mirror. He's like, why do I suck so much? And this is even after I think he has the most valuable company in the world. It's like, oh, he tortured himself into greatness too. [00:51:53] S1: Yeah. And and I would say Adam did that to me. Right? So, like... And I would say to this day, it's like it's always conflict. It's always concentration. Like, he's always pushing. And that just, like, it starts at the top and, like, it boils its way down throughout the organization. [00:52:08] S0: So you you described him before as, like, an incredible taskmaster. [00:52:11] S1: Yes. [00:52:12] S0: Like for somebody on the outside, explain what that feels like.
00:52:12 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:52:12] S0: Like for somebody on the outside, explain what that feels like. [00:52:14] S1: He understands the right buttons to push for everybody. Right? So if you're insecure, he's gonna double click on that. Right? And say, oh, you're stupid. You're not that good. You can't do it. And you're like, well, I'm gonna show this guy that I can do it. Right? And for other people, you know, it's like, he will, you know, be really nice to them and, like, that's how he gets more out of them. Or like other people, it's like... He would just be like, oh, well, that's interesting that you think about it this way. And then that person senses doubt and then, you know, they go and execute on it. Adam is just... He's he's hypercompetitive and he's... And that's what also makes him a great leader is that he understands the things that make people tick and really pushes them to do their best work. [00:52:48] S0: Does he push you further than you think you can go? [00:52:51] S1: I think there's this great quote in in Andre Agassi's biography where he says, his dad tortured him. And at a certain point, goes, I no longer need my dad to... I'm probably butchering this, but I no longer need my dad to torture me. I am old enough to do it myself. Right? And that's, you know, that's how I am with him now. It's like, I went through so many years of it. I don't need him to do it. Right? It's it's ingrained in me.
00:52:51 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:52:51] S1: I think there's this great quote in in Andre Agassi's biography where he says, his dad tortured him. And at a certain point, goes, I no longer need my dad to... I'm probably butchering this, but I no longer need my dad to torture me. I am old enough to do it myself. Right? And that's, you know, that's how I am with him now. It's like, I went through so many years of it. I don't need him to do it. Right? It's it's ingrained in me. [00:53:17] S0: Yeah. This is what I love about you guys. And I wanna... The next question I'm gonna ask you is like, what do you think people from the outside get wrong about this performance culture? It goes back to this idea, it's like, hey, maybe we should like, our brand's a little too friendly and too soft. It doesn't like represent like this ruthless culture inside. I think I mentioned on the episode I did with him, it's like, what I like about Raf is I can call him at like 11PM. And he picks up. You mentioned earlier, was like, dude, you don't believe in scheduled phone calls. I was like, no, I just call people. And that's it. Like, let's just talk now. What do you think you should update in terms of the new brand of AppLovin and the communication you guys are gonna start doing externally? Like what's gonna be different than what you were doing?
00:53:55 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:53:55] S1: I think what's gonna be different is that we're really gonna focus on telling the story of the founders that we work with and the brands and kind of showing them from when they were the small business step, how we help them grow into these massive companies and the journey throughout it. I think where a lot of people get wrong about AppLovin is they say, Oh, they see this ad platform and it's outperforming its peers. It must be a scam or a fraud. What they don't take the time is really peel back the fruit and say, Oh, wow. Look at these guys, they have the perfect edges. They etch everything in great. Like if you really take time to like look into the details of our business, we care about every single detail and you notice these little things they've add up and that's what sets us apart from our peers. This is what Luca Ferrari talks about as well, is that if you if you look at his business or also like Long Lake as well, he'd say, oh, it's just a PE shop. What do they do? They just go in, they fire a bunch of people and they make it more efficient. It's like, no, it's way more than that. They have better technology stacks. [00:54:53] S0: They're actually hiring more people. [00:54:54] S1: Well, that's lot like specifically. They're hiring more people. They're able to make their employees more efficient to get more output. And that's one of the things for us is that the way that we approach things are different than everybody else. We optimize on the inefficiencies of these other businesses, and those combined allow us to set ourselves apart.
00:54:54 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:54:54] S1: Well, that's lot like specifically. They're hiring more people. They're able to make their employees more efficient to get more output. And that's one of the things for us is that the way that we approach things are different than everybody else. We optimize on the inefficiencies of these other businesses, and those combined allow us to set ourselves apart. [00:55:10] S0: I think telling the story of the founders of the companies you work with is really smart. I think obviously telling the story of the founders of AppLovin too and the important people that play a role in the company is super important. You just mentioned Long Lake. Me and you had a dinner with one of the Long Lake founders. And the first dinner, you're like, Oh, no shit. This is like, if that guy's involved, you remember you calling me after this? [00:55:30] S1: Yeah, yeah. I was like, honestly, there's not many times that I walk away from a dinner, like, human is so impressive. I know he's a part of the Illuminati. [00:55:38] S0: Yeah, you're like, I don't understand it. [00:55:39] S1: Then like How come I never heard of him?