00:46:38 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:46:38] S0: Well, that was gonna be my next question to you. Like, when this is happening, you're like, okay. We went public 28. Now we're down to 3.8. You're not, like, stressed? [00:46:46] S1: No. Because you're talking to a guy who... My hobbies are are, like, $15 a month. You know? Like, I play, like, a game of World of Warcraft. Right? It's like a subscription. I, you know, I hang out with the same friends I did in high school or people I work with. You know, I wear clothing that's, like, a... You know, pretty cheap. I don't have, like, these extravagant tastes. Like, I I think what ends up happening with a lot of these people is that their lifestyle creeps a lot more than what they end up, you know, having. That was something that that never had happened to me. And so I was never concerned about cash flow. I knew we had a great business and and, you know, they were still growing. So I was just like, you know, let's let's double down on what we have. [00:47:28] S0: Is, like, frugality, like, a company... Like, is that something you guys talk about inside the company? Because, like, I remember talking to Adam and at the time, the stock price was amazing. On paper, he's worth, like, 20,000,000,000. Yep. And he's, like, taking JetBlue. Yeah. And then I introduced him to my friend Patrick, and he was, like, I think doing, like, investor meetings. He was, like, flying, like, Southwest or something. It was, like, a normal, like, budget airline. It's, what is this guy doing? Yeah.
00:47:28 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:47:28] S0: Is, like, frugality, like, a company... Like, is that something you guys talk about inside the company? Because, like, I remember talking to Adam and at the time, the stock price was amazing. On paper, he's worth, like, 20,000,000,000. Yep. And he's, like, taking JetBlue. Yeah. And then I introduced him to my friend Patrick, and he was, like, I think doing, like, investor meetings. He was, like, flying, like, Southwest or something. It was, like, a normal, like, budget airline. It's, what is this guy doing? Yeah. [00:47:54] S1: So I I think it's less about, like, you know, we're we're talking about frugality, but, you know, if you look at dashboards all day and the main KPI you're looking at is return on ad spend. When we think about life like that, how much return am I going to get for my investment? If I can get to the same place at the same time but one is 10x cheaper, why wouldn't I take that every time? I think that was really kind of the mindset of it. So it was less about frugality, but the return wasn't there for it. [00:48:19] S0: What is this relentless focus you guys have on the amount of employees you have in the business? [00:48:25] S1: Yeah. So the thing for us is [00:48:27] S0: Is that our same situation? We can hit this much revenue with half the... It's like a... Almost like a demonstration of like an actual skill set of an entrepreneur. It's like I can do twice as more with half of
00:48:27 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:48:27] S0: Is that our same situation? We can hit this much revenue with half the... It's like a... Almost like a demonstration of like an actual skill set of an entrepreneur. It's like I can do twice as more with half of [00:48:37] S1: what you Exactly. Right? Because it's a distraction. Right? You're you're managing seed players that are just wasting your time or you're focused on things that don't matter at all. Right? And so it's great when you have less people, it forces you to be very focused. [00:48:50] S0: Is this like something that's like talked about inside the company or does it just happens naturally? This who we are? Because this goes back to your insane performance culture. [00:48:58] S1: Yeah. I would say Amazon was maybe one of these companies where they really focused on being frugal. But for us, and also because the company is founder led, we spend the money like it's ours. We're also very data driven, very analytical. We look at everything that we do. When you look at it from a spreadsheet perspective, it's just very obvious the things that make sense to double down on and other things that don't. [00:49:20] S0: So is there not like lots of... You mentioned earlier, like, we can do we can do every single job in the company. We can do a campaign. We can make the... They're creative. Like, there's not many layers of management inside of it then?
00:49:20 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:49:20] S0: So is there not like lots of... You mentioned earlier, like, we can do we can do every single job in the company. We can do a campaign. We can make the... They're creative. Like, there's not many layers of management inside of it then? [00:49:30] S1: No. Not really. I mean, obviously, the algorithms are like... We we obviously can't do that. And luckily, we have, like, an incredible team that has... That's able to, like, build those systems that Adam and I and others can't. For us, this goes to the controls of our company. There's not much red tape. Our belief is we're hiring smart people. They understand the value of a dollar and we let them go out there and do what we feel is best with the company. It's not like there's these layers of approval to go get things done. [00:49:58] S0: But is there anything else that that you think is rare or unique in the approach, the way you guys run your company that you don't see outside the company and other businesses?
00:49:58 · David Senra, Rafael Vivas
[00:49:58] S0: But is there anything else that that you think is rare or unique in the approach, the way you guys run your company that you don't see outside the company and other businesses? [00:50:08] S1: We try to give people as much ownership and as much work as possible versus like, a lot of companies, oh, you're overworked. Like, we're gonna go hire a bunch more people. Our approach from it is like, okay, what can we build to automate your work at certain parts of your work to make it a lot more efficient? What things are not important that you're wasting time on that we just shouldn't be doing at all? There's no, like, peer managers in AppLovin. Like, everyone is a doer. Like, even our CTO is pushing code himself. Right? And he manages, like, a 100% engineering work. Really just, being relentless on, like, prioritizing what we work on and then also being very hands on are really the two like difference makers. There is no special magic, David. It's like fucking work on the things that matter and do it over a long period of time, success will come.
00:50:08 · Rafael Vivas, David Senra
[00:50:08] S1: We try to give people as much ownership and as much work as possible versus like, a lot of companies, oh, you're overworked. Like, we're gonna go hire a bunch more people. Our approach from it is like, okay, what can we build to automate your work at certain parts of your work to make it a lot more efficient? What things are not important that you're wasting time on that we just shouldn't be doing at all? There's no, like, peer managers in AppLovin. Like, everyone is a doer. Like, even our CTO is pushing code himself. Right? And he manages, like, a 100% engineering work. Really just, being relentless on, like, prioritizing what we work on and then also being very hands on are really the two like difference makers. There is no special magic, David. It's like fucking work on the things that matter and do it over a long period of time, success will come. [00:50:53] S0: You and I were talking about the Luca Ferrari episode that I just did. A lot of what you just said is very similar to like Luca. He has this idea. He's like, hey, I don't really give a shit about pedigree. I wanna hire young people. He loves people that has no experience. And he goes, and then you find somebody who's young, talented, and hungry, and you saturate their capacity, which is exactly what you just said. It's like, we're all working. Like, I'm gonna give you more than you can handle. Why do you think you and Adam and Luca arrived at the same conclusion? And why is that so important?