The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
00:09:09 · Scott Galloway, Anna Lembke
[00:09:09] S2: Mhmm. [00:09:10] S3: But we're now mediating this anxiety through these devices, which only make it worse because they play into our sort of obsessive compulsive loops of wanting constant reassurance. And one thing we know about OCD is that the more we look for and get reassurance, the more OCD or anxious we become. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. So, yeah, it's and we see that at the university level. I mean, here at Stanford, we see, you know, these wonderful young people who have enormous gifts and talents and promise for the future, But like any bit of uncertainty or even the hint of imperfection just sends them reeling. It's like there's no ballast to hold all that.
00:09:56 · Scott Galloway
[00:09:56] S2: One of the reasons I love speaking to you is I feel like I get free therapy from those qualified person in the world. So back to me and my kids, I worry what I see. I want to see if you see this path that I see. And that is people think I would have had technology figured out in our home. I wrote a book warning the world about technology in 2017. And the cobbler's kids have no shoe here, no shoes. My kids are, especially my youngest, device addiction will you know, fib, take TikTok into the bathroom. You know, just we're literally, we've just screwed it all up. Anyway, what I see is this constant action reaction, Dopa, action reaction stimulus, AI million times a second with content to just keep them glued and the Dopa flowing. And what I worry about... I mean, I used to come home and watch five hours of cartoons for, I guess, a milder shot of Dopa or occasionally sneak into my dad's garage to get a peek at a Playboy for another dopa hit, right? Something. Right. And what I see though, is now that they have the IV connected to them six hours a day and that constant cycle of dopa, and then you take the device away, that is the first time I've ever seen addiction up close. The lying, the negotiating, the outbursts, the inability to emotionally regulate. It's like, oh, I'm living with an addict. I mean, this this is just what an addict acts like. Is all of this is social media, are the largest companies in the world basically creating the mother of all on ramps to addiction to other things later in life?
00:11:41 · Anna Lembke
[00:11:41] S3: Short answer, yes. That is exactly what is happening. These platforms are not just powerful tools. They're also very potent drugs. And the... One of the main reasons that they're so potent and so much more potent, let's say, than TV, you know, which people try to analogize to and say, oh, people said TV was the idiot box. This is a totally different level in large part because of our ability to micro control what we're consuming. So a huge part of addiction... People think that addiction is trying to, like, escape control. Addiction is all about control, trying to assert control over our micro experience to change the way they feel. And there's no more immediate way to do that than to swipe right, swipe left, scroll up, scroll down, tap. And it goes right to our visual cortex, which goes right to our brain's reward pathway releasing dopamine in the nucleus accumbens, the same reward pathway that's activated by drugs and alcohol. And you're absolutely right. When kids... People in general, but especially we see this clinically with kids addicted to all forms of digital media, when we take the device away, they go into full on withdrawal. The universal symptoms of withdrawal from any addictive substance or behavior are anxiety, irritability, insomnia, depression, and craving. But we also see physiologic or physical symptoms of withdrawal, headache, you know, dizziness, stomach aches. And many of these kids have sort of these rageful temper tantrums flinging themselves against the wall or on the floor. But the thing is it's all time limited. For the most part, if you can create a safe container for these kids, within a couple of days, they'll begin to emerge. And what so many families and parents report is like, oh my gosh. I get my kid back. This person is sort of the person I recognize. They're socialized. They they come and talk to us. They're helping with with chores in the house. And I think this is a really important piece of it. Like, part of addiction is creating personality disorders and sociopathy. I mean, that's sort of inherent. So you talk about the lying. You know, the lying habit is key to any addiction. So, you know, we we really change our personalities when we are addicted, and when we get into recovery and emerge from that, we we restore our sanity. We we return to the people that we are, and we see this all the time in kids.
00:14:06 · Anna Lembke
The other thing I would say is there is a growing body of evidence showing that if you take emotionally distressed youth, and you reduce their time on social media to one hour a day, and you objectively measure that, so you're tracking what they're doing, and you compare that to a control group of youth where you don't change their social media consumption, what you see in the group that reduces social media use to no more than one hour a day is decreases in depression, decreases in anxiety, improvements in sleep, because sleep is a huge part of this and mediates a lot of the emotional distress, Improvements in loneliness and FOMO, fear of missing out. So, yeah, this is a this is a huge and real issue. And again, the technology is not going away. We all know that. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, but we have got to establish a healthier relationship with the technology, and we can't really leave it to parents alone. It's just too hard. You know? Schools have to come on board. The companies that make and profit from these digital devices and digital media have to come on board, which is why the Meta settlement recently was so landmark because it didn't just involve billions of dollars, you know, in sort of retributed payment, but also it involved product design for teen Instagram, which which I think is really momentous. We'll see if it happens and if it helps, but I think it's an important step forward.
00:15:35 · Scott Galloway
[00:15:35] S0: We'll be right back after a quick break. Support for the show comes from USA Facts. I've interviewed countless politicians, and if there's one thing we all find disconcerting is when they butcher the facts with some biased half truth. Give us a break already. So when I had the chance to debate conservative podcaster Ben Shapiro, our natural response was bring it on. Why? Because it was sponsored by USA Facts, and each debate segment started with a presentation of government data and facts, employment, government spending, income data, housing, and more. The topic, the American dream. Is it still within reach? We argued. We found some common ground. We actually debated, and there were no personal attacks. Watch the full debate on The USA Facts YouTube channel. We think you'll find it unlike any other debate. That is entertaining and informative. We hope you check it out. Support for the show comes from SoFi. Here's the thing. Most traditional banks pay almost nothing in interest, so your money ends up just sitting there twiddling its sums doing nothing. And if your money's doing nothing, it's not doing its job. You work hard for every dollar, so why not put those dollars to work for you? That's where SoFi comes in. With the everything app for smarter money, with SoFi checking and savings, you can easily track your spending and save towards your goals while earning nine times the national average savings rate. You'll get paid up to two days early with direct deposit, and you can access additional FDIC insurance up to 3,000,000 on your deposits through a network of participating banks. You'll pay no account or overdraft fees, and you can also earn a cash bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. You also can organize your savings into vaults for the goals that matter most. Small decisions like this can create big momentum over time. You can open your SoFi checking and savings account today. Head to sofi.com/profgbank to get started. That's sofi.com/profgbank. SoFi checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC. Support for the show comes from Yahoo Scout. Life comes with plenty of big questions, when you're taking your first steps into adulthood. When those questions get complicated, you want more than a quick answer. You want reliable information without spending hours searching for it.
00:17:50 · Scott Galloway
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