The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
00:53:06 · Anna Lembke, Scott Galloway, Scott Galloway
[00:53:06] S3: Right. [00:53:07] S2: And, you know, I wasn't as home as much as I should have been with my kids. And I really regret it now because I couldn't resist going to the World Economic Forum because I was gonna get to be on stage with someone famous. [00:53:20] S0: And now I look back and [00:53:21] S2: I think they're gonna be dead and I'm gonna be dead soon. Who cares? And I think economic security is really important, but I had that a long time ago. Why am I still sacrificing important things in the pursuit of it? And I think, well, it's because it, I think it makes me more impressive to other people. Talk about, one, is there a term for the addiction to the affirmation of others? And I won't say relevance because that makes it sound more noble. It's... Yeah. I'm I'm gonna read the comments in this video. And if someone says mean things about you and me, I'm gonna get upset. [00:53:59] S3: Right. And
00:53:59 · Anna Lembke, Scott Galloway
[00:53:59] S3: Right. And [00:54:00] S2: if they say nice things, it's gonna make me feel good. And that's sort of pathetic because most likely it's a bot, an Albanian troll farm sponsored by the GRU, trying to create polarization. But is that... What is the term for that? And if you're an adult that has recognized some success because of that addiction, what are your thoughts around modulating it and turning it, you know, and hopefully, quite frankly, addressing it? Because I know enough to know that I suffer from it. It's like I used to joke, I have German and Italian parents, so I'm smart enough to know I'm fucked up but too lazy to do anything about it. So I'm smart enough to know this is some sort of addiction, but I'm not entirely sure what to do about it. Your thoughts. [00:54:44] S3: First of all, thank you for your humility and transparency. I think that really helps so many people when we admit our own vulnerabilities. [00:54:52] S2: I just like talking about myself. [00:54:53] S3: Well, okay. Whatever. I still think it's helpful. [00:54:56] S2: Thank you.
00:54:57 · Anna Lembke
[00:54:57] S3: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what we all want is human connection. It is our lifeblood. And social validation, reputation and enhancement, affirmation, Every other drug is really just an indirect vehicle to try to get that. That is what we all really desire at the end of the day. And, of course, now we've created this medium with likes and shares and comments and followers that makes that all so much more possible. Plus, AI agents are completely engineered to do that for us. So now we don't even need other humans. We can just get our affirmation from our AI chatbot that tells us how wonderful we are. So this is... And there's also science behind this, not just clinical observation. Studies showing that social validation and rep... Reputation enhancement releases dopamine, and the brain's reward pathway feels really, really good. So you are not alone. We are living in the age of what I call endemic narcissism, where narcissism has become so common that we're all struggling with it. We have these, you know, all these technologies that literally force us to look at ourselves. We're constantly being encouraged from childhood on to achieve, to go to the best schools. Parents measure their success as parents by what their kids are doing, what school they went to, how much money they're making. I mean, this is absolutely baked into the the the sort of... I don't know what analogy I'm looking for, but it's baked into our experience now, this endemic narcissism. And what's very clear to me is that narcissism is contrary to how we evolve, which is to live together in these tribes. And when we make these efforts to distinguish ourselves outside of and above the tribe, our... The natural homeostatic reckoning for that is shame and self loathing. That shame and self loathing is the natural ballast for narcissistic self regard, which I think explains why we are seeing so many people in clinical care who hate themselves, who are experiencing impostor syndrome, who have overwhelming shy... Shame. If they really give themselves, like, a moment to let it in, so many people experience profound shame. I know myself when I, like, give a talk, you know, to a big audience or whatever, afterwards, I have this incredible comedown, which is primarily shame.
00:57:29 · Anna Lembke, Scott Galloway
And I just think we're not going to get away from that shame and self loathing as long as we're so invested in our own individual narcissistic achievements. So the way to square all of that is actually to try to be more anonymous. Right? To pursue excellence in the work that we wanna do because we, you know, we wanna do good things, but to not have it be self focused. Very practical things are turn off the likes. Don't read the comments. If by virtue of your business model, you know, the comments need to be read, outsource it to somebody else. Mhmm. Turn off self view. Don't look at yourself. Look at yourself enough to kinda get yourself together once a day, but don't constantly be looking at yourself or checking yourself. Don't overinvest in your physical appearance. Again, invest to the point where, like, you're being polite, you can show up, and you're socially appropriate, but all of these things, we have to actually intentionally try to avoid that kind of self recognition. Because trust me, the the end result of that is self loathing shame. It's baked into the hardware to bring us down again. [00:58:44] S2: So I always like to pause on something I hadn't thought about that I think has real insight. Don't overinvest in your appearance. Everyone is work on yourself, optimization culture, rid of the 11s with Botox, workout four times a day, sauna, red light, retinol. I mean, optimize. [00:59:06] S3: Yeah, plastic surgery.
00:59:06 · Anna Lembke, Scott Galloway, Scott Galloway
[00:59:06] S3: Yeah, plastic surgery. [00:59:08] S2: Plastic surgery. Optimize to the point where you're just a freakish specimen of what you shouldn't be, Right? Just just push back on biology. [00:59:19] S3: Boob implants, butt implants, cheek... I don't know. It's crazy. [00:59:23] S2: It's gone... Looks maxing. It has gone it has gone overboard. And I'm I'm subject absolutely or guilty of some of that. I probably work out more than I need to because anyways. But in your book, you talk about the fact that trying to control a life and create a frictionless life results in anxiety and depression. And then the second half of your book, you talk about solutions. And I just want to ping through some of them and let you pick one or two to expand on because I found them really illuminating for me. Pray even if you're not sure you believe. I love that. I want you to expand on that. Do the next right thing and wait for meaning to declare itself. I like that. Although I'm not sure my kids would be able to absorb that. [01:00:10] S0: Love by letting people [01:00:11] S2: have their own experience. You talked about that. Let your kids fail. Don't engage in concierge or bulldozer parenting. Cultivate awe through symbols and synchronicity. I I want you to expand on that. And then stay connected and embrace uncertainty. So take any two or three of those and expand on them.
01:00:32 · Anna Lembke
[01:00:32] S3: Yeah. And what I mean by pray is whether you're a person of faith or not, pray is a stance of humility. It's rightsizing our ego and our place in the universe. Mhmm. It's acknowledging that we have limited control and that there are many things that we don't control, and it's just showing up for life in a in a humble way, asking for guidance, and also, you know, kind of like being in awe of the cosmic order and how mysterious and beautiful and amazing it really is. So I think that's really a humble and important stance. It's also kind of the opposite of psychotherapy, which, again, is inward and backward. To me, prayer is this outward and forward pivoting in a way that I think is an important antidote to the times that we live in now. Do the next right thing is, again, I think a really powerful way to give our lives meaning, but it's not an arrogant sort of, like, perfection. It's like, hey, What can I do in my life right now, right, you know, today? And I think it's it's really the, again, this antidote to sort of this optimized life. We're not projecting ourselves to some engineered perfect future version. It's like, hey. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? But what can I do right now to be of service? What is the right thing that I can do, that I can walk through the world and feel, you know, good about that? Because as you said, it's so ironic. You know, you went to the World Economic Forum, and you gave a talk, and yet you look back now, and you kinda regret that. Right? But I bet, like, the things that you've done for other people that got no attention, and nobody knew about them, and nobody else cared or acknowledged except for yourself, Those are the things we really remember and that have sort of a powerful undergirding, like, oh, you know, I'm I'm a lovable person. Like, I, you know, I I made a good choice in that moment. That that feels really good. You know, something for me as simple as swimming the other morning, and my lane was... Didn't have a cover on it, so I could have just kept swimming, but somebody else came and was, like, struggling to get the the cover off of their lane, and I interrupted my workout and got out on the cold pool deck to help them do their cover. Now it's a small thing, but I felt really I felt really good about that. You know? Powerful. Yeah. It stayed with me. I was like, yeah.