02:09:10 · John Coogan, John Nay
[02:09:10] S0: Yeah. So talk about the key decision to not just supercharge the in house counsel with effectively a software product, but instead actually spin up a proper, partnership. And l you have an LLP. Right? [02:09:24] S6: So Norm Law LLP. Yeah. It's it's a partnership. It's a law firm in all the traditional senses, except it sits on top of AI agents that are automating a lot of the first pass of the work. And so that was a huge inflection point for us because it allows us to power something that can go full stack [02:09:43] S0: Mhmm. [02:09:43] S6: For the client. And this is actually sort of related to my past. So this is my second company. I was the founder and CEO of another AI company before this, and I just have a proclivity of wanting to just, like, do the whole thing. In that case, it was an AI company that was selling AI to other asset managers. Sure. And I built out a subsidiary that registered with this SEC as an investment adviser. Mhmm. And then we just became an AI powered asset manager ourselves and just did the whole thing. And that company was acquired by TIA Nuveen. So here, similarly, we just want to complete the whole task for the client. So in collaboration with the partners at Norm Law, so we have people that were partners at the a lot of the AM Law twenty. So they join, and then they take the outputs from the AI agents, and then they provide legal advice directly to their clients like they would have at another top law firm, but now they do it sitting inside of Norm Law.
02:09:43 · John Nay, John Coogan
[02:09:43] S6: For the client. And this is actually sort of related to my past. So this is my second company. I was the founder and CEO of another AI company before this, and I just have a proclivity of wanting to just, like, do the whole thing. In that case, it was an AI company that was selling AI to other asset managers. Sure. And I built out a subsidiary that registered with this SEC as an investment adviser. Mhmm. And then we just became an AI powered asset manager ourselves and just did the whole thing. And that company was acquired by TIA Nuveen. So here, similarly, we just want to complete the whole task for the client. So in collaboration with the partners at Norm Law, so we have people that were partners at the a lot of the AM Law twenty. So they join, and then they take the outputs from the AI agents, and then they provide legal advice directly to their clients like they would have at another top law firm, but now they do it sitting inside of Norm Law. [02:10:35] S0: Mhmm. And how how valuable is the data inside of the law firms versus inside of companies? Because I imagine that that has to be a source of strength, a source of a moat, and a big reason why venture capitalists continue to back the business.
02:10:35 · John Coogan, John Nay, Jordi Hays
[02:10:35] S0: Mhmm. And how how valuable is the data inside of the law firms versus inside of companies? Because I imagine that that has to be a source of strength, a source of a moat, and a big reason why venture capitalists continue to back the business. [02:10:55] S6: Yeah. So the ability to have this vertical integration of the building of the AI and the other software with the using and deployment of it in that really tight feedback loop to iterate and improve it, that's key. So that vertical integration type model. And the data is a big aspect to that. So it's both the data from the operation of the firm and what happens day to day, but it's also just like the qualitative insights about how would we automate something like this, having root access to how it's actually being done and building it side by side where we're here in the World Trade Center, we have AI engineers sitting right next to lawyers doing their job. That type of feedback loop is invaluable. And we're the only people in the world that can do that because of that really tight integration and collaboration. And so that unlocks our ability to kinda reinvent the whole workflow. So instead of having a copilot tool that you can use and get a little bit more efficient, you can, from scratch, think about from first principles, how would you redesign that workflow internally inside a firm, and then just build that and iterate on it every day together. [02:12:04] S1: Jordan? Law sue law school student comes to you asking for advice on how to think about their early career. What what do you tell them?
02:12:04 · Jordi Hays, John Nay, John Coogan
[02:12:04] S1: Jordan? Law sue law school student comes to you asking for advice on how to think about their early career. What what do you tell them? [02:12:17] S6: Well, I think the general principles of legal reasoning and thinking through things more like theoretically, that's still super valid and useful. And that's almost just like philosophical thinking that's applicable in any area of life. But then in terms of going into specific areas, I think going forward, this notion of what we developed around legal engineering is going be really important for them to lean into. So that's using their legal knowledge and legal reasoning, but then applying it using AI. So turning different workflows in different domains of legal expertise into AI agents, and then testing them and validating them and deploying them and working super closely with clients around that, I think that's gonna be increasingly what they should focus on. [02:13:04] S0: Mhmm. [02:13:04] S1: Makes a lot of sense. [02:13:05] S0: How are you thinking about international expansion? Is that a is that something you sort of get for free as the model capabilities advance and the frontier advances? Or is that something that is a very considered decision at some point in the future because it'll be a a significant burden [02:13:25] S1: to You also get it for free because I'm sure some of the clients are already cross work Yeah. [02:13:29] S0: Cross border. But I'm just wondering, like, how how how heavy is that decision to, to expand internationally?
02:13:29 · John Coogan, John Nay, Jordi Hays, John McElhone, Hussein Fazal, Tyler
[02:13:29] S0: Cross border. But I'm just wondering, like, how how how heavy is that decision to, to expand internationally? [02:13:37] S6: Yeah. I mean, with the clients that we have now, places like Blackstone that are super international Yeah. We get that we get that opportunity. Yeah. But we don't necessarily build it out because we we need to make sure that we have the legal expertise in those jurisdictions. [02:13:51] S0: Sure. [02:13:51] S6: So when you're actually powering the full stack provision of legal services, that's another layer of complexity of this, of of having the people that are gonna be able to supervise that and put their name behind that and have that relevant expertise. So for us, it is a big decision about when we go to, for example, The UK and other areas that are more relevant to us. We need to do that very deliberately. [02:14:12] S0: Makes sense. Well, congratulations on the fundraise. Thank you so much for coming on the show. [02:14:17] S1: The whole team. [02:14:17] S0: Have a great rest of your week. [02:14:19] S1: And thanks. It felt like we were on vacation for a little bit. This view. [02:14:22] S0: Are you really in the World Trade Center? You're in New York Yeah. [02:14:25] S5: Right now? [02:14:25] S6: We're in the World Trade Center. That's, New Jersey behind me. [02:14:28] S0: That's beautiful. It looks like Miami almost with the plants and stuff. Yeah. Anyway, enjoy New York. Enjoy the summer. [02:14:35] S8: Thank you. [02:14:35] S2: Have a good day. [02:14:36] S6: Thanks, guys.
02:14:36 · John Nay, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[02:14:36] S6: Thanks, guys. [02:14:36] S0: Best of your day. We'll talk to you soon. Goodbye. Let me tell you about MongoDB. What's the only thing faster than the AI market? Your business on MongoDB. Don't just build AI. Own the data platform that powers it. [02:14:48] S1: You got anything for me, John?