A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:00:00 · Pablo Srugo, Rob Woodbridge
[00:00:00] S0: So last week we launched the first episode of the new format with how Nike found product-market fit, and this week we have the second part of this new format where we go through some of the big observations, some of the insights that came to us as a result of thinking through the Nike story and the things that Phil Knight went through. And to do this, I brought a good friend of mine, Rob Woodbridge, who is a multi-time founder. He was actually the CEO that we brought in for a while at my last startup, Gymtrack, but more than anything, he's just a sharp dude who loves startups. And I figured you know what? Probably be more fun to do this together than alone. So here it is. Hope you like it. I use this app now. I've been using it for two years called Shred. I think I showed it to you, for working out? And I remember, when I checked that app out, I – again, I looked it up, and the seed had just happened six months ago. So I wasn't that late, but I'm like, man, we had a company. It was called Gymtrack. We could've built this thing <laugh>. How do we not realize that software only workout plans, no hardware, no AI, and it would've been amazing? <Laugh>. I would've used. I’m paying for it. I pay 150 bucks a year for this. [00:01:07] S1: Isn't that funny that it's like the simpler of all things? You were building that, man, but you were building it all at the same time, hardware, software, wearable sensors.
00:01:07 · Rob Woodbridge, Pablo Srugo
[00:01:07] S1: Isn't that funny that it's like the simpler of all things? You were building that, man, but you were building it all at the same time, hardware, software, wearable sensors. [00:01:17] S0: It's worse than that, Rob, because I remember when things were not working anymore after – we almost got acquired and then things fall apart or whatever, and then we had to cut the team down pretty heavily. I remember Ken, our CFO, comes to me. He says, “What do you guys want to do moving forward? What's the new plan?” We had money left, so there was still a second at bat. And we were like, “Well, I guess, hardware's our most differentiated piece, so we should probably do something with that.” And Ken was like, “You guys sure you don't want to go the software route? It might be better for you guys. Maybe you just build a workout app.” And I was like, “No, no, that's stupid.” <Laugh>. Welcome to The Product-Market Fit Show brought to you by Mistral, a seed stage firm based in Canada. I'm Pablo. I'm a founder turned VC. My goal is to help early-stage founders like you find product market fit. [00:02:14] S1: I reread Shoe Dog. [00:02:17] S0: Oh, nice. [00:02:18] S1: It's such a great story. The whole thing is so good, right? I haven't watched that movie that they did with Ben Affleck. Air, I haven’t watched it. [00:02:31] S0: It's pretty good. [00:02:32] S1: Yeah. It’s where Shoe Dog starts or finishes, right? [00:02:36] S0: Yes, yes , yes .
00:02:36 · Pablo Srugo, Rob Woodbridge
[00:02:36] S0: Yes, yes , yes . [00:02:38] S1: There was so much that I was – so many notes that I took on this book because, oh, and that; oh, I’m trying to put that and, oh, this. It's a timeless story, to me, of entrepreneurship, and I think it ties into some of the things we were talking about before about when to give up and when to not give up. He should have given up years ago. And so he's the worst-case study here for us to talk about… [00:03:07] S0: He's also the best. You know why? I was thinking about – I was thinking through what episodes to do and whatever, and I'm like this kind of new segment of how X found product market fit. And I listened to the Amazon story. I'm like I can't talk about this. Basically, Jeff Bezos is a genius. He figures out that e-commerce is going to be massive, launches an online bookstore, which is the best thing he could possibly launch, and crushes it <laugh>. That's it, and so there's nothing there to get, if we learn from that. [00:03:33] S1: Every tool that he's built since then has been as a direct result of his original idea growing so big and so fast that nothing else was available, and then he had to… [00:03:42] S0: It's insane. [00:03:43] S1: …build his own delivery fleet. He had to build his own cloud server. They had to build everything, yeah, and then…
00:03:43 · Rob Woodbridge, Pablo Srugo
[00:03:43] S1: …build his own delivery fleet. He had to build his own cloud server. They had to build everything, yeah, and then… [00:03:47] S0: Not only that but you saw, obviously, AWS became this massive thing that – out of left field, and now, I just saw that – if you look at just the profits from the advertisement business is now matching the profits of AWS, and you're just like, what's going on <laugh>? Who is this guy? [00:04:05] S1: Let's talk about Nike then. Let's jump into Nike. Not a deep dive into the story but some of the highlights of things that resonated, that we've experienced, or that we've gone through, or that we've seen or worked with companies that are going through, and I think that that's the – that would be the key to me is to come through and say what are the biggest – he had everything happen to him that every VC or every other entrepreneur maybe has one or two of these things happening, but he had everything happening. So I think that it's a perfect case study to say – to pull in some of those things that happen to them, to him, and having Prefontaine die. You know what I mean? It's just how can this happen when everything is – finally can afford a spokesperson and then he dies. What? [00:04:59] S0: What was that story? I don't think I touched on that.
00:04:59 · Pablo Srugo, Rob Woodbridge
[00:04:59] S0: What was that story? I don't think I touched on that. [00:05:02] S1: Yeah. So Prefontaine was this up-and-coming runner that was the – he was their ambassador. It’s who they could afford, and I remember Pre. I remember this guy dominating. He was a world-class runner, and then he, in his prime at 24, rolls his car and dies, like dead, right? And so you have these moments where you're like what is the universe telling me? And they get this point where – so I think we – let's pick a demarcation point because that's an interesting story. At some point, the universe is telling you something <laugh>, and you're either receptive to it or you ignore it, like most stubborn entrepreneurs do. And when your spokesperson dies, that's a pretty big statement to <laugh> – that's something where you're like, oh, how can you get past that? [00:05:57] S0: I think it's true. If you just go through and you just count punches to the face, Nike is probably top of the list. Today you look. It's $150 billion company, number one in the shoe market, just crushing it, right? But it was such – I remember that when I listened to Shoe Dog for the first time, just how long it took. He gave half his company away to – it was effectively like an advisor, his coach. I was watching the – I don’t know if you saw that BECKHAM documentary came out? [00:06:30] S1: No. [00:06:30] S0: Anyways, it's on Netflix. [00:06:32] S1: More of a Spice Girls, like a Posh Spice guy, anyways.
00:06:32 · Rob Woodbridge, Pablo Srugo
[00:06:32] S1: More of a Spice Girls, like a Posh Spice guy, anyways. [00:06:36] S0: Right. You watch the Spice Girls documentary. I'm watching the second one. One of the pieces was like it just – this resonated with me because it reminded me of Phil Knight a bit where he's like – I mean, he's a superstar, right? But then, whatever, something happens with his coach. I think it was at Man U or Real Madrid. I don't remember which club. They don't just bench him. He's the best. He’s literally one of the best players. They don't just bench him. They’re like you're no longer training with this team, and he had to finish off the season. And this guy keeps showing up every single day to practice, and he trains on his own on the side. And the coach was like – I don't even know what to make of that. I don't know how long it took. A few weeks in, the rest of the squad was like, “Dude, like, bring this guy back in.” This is crazy, right? But that reminded me of Phil because it’s like, if you just look at it, he goes and he starts doing part-time – he's a professor part-time just to pay the bills. He’s going to track meet after track meet. You know what? There was just enough there, I think, every year that kept him going.