Our Future Podcast
00:22:15 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:22:15] S0: of needed an AI strategy. [00:22:16] S1: Yeah. And they just said they like spitballed a number. And it was like one of those things where you just keep going up and up and up until you hear no. And they're like, sounds about right. And I was like, what a great answer to hear when you just like spitball a number. And on the other side, this very tenured banker who just is in charge of all this spend is like, yeah, you know, I totally hear you. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah. It's very hard, [00:22:41] S0: I think, for young entrepreneurs to price their product, though. There's a lot of, like, impostor syndrome that comes with building a product that's, you know, not fully ready, hasn't been in market yet. And there's a chicken and the egg problem, or I'm not sure that's the best way to describe it, but it's hard to, you know, sell someone something without experience in doing so. But then you also don't want to discount the work you're doing because it's taking away valuable resources from someone who might pay. So it's a tricky road, right? [00:23:07] S1: I think pricing is inherently tricky. Yes, I agree. Though that said, like the comps exist, right? Like you can see what Bloomberg is charging to get at least a rough idea on what ballpark you should be in, right? Like Bloomberg is notorious for being super Yeah. [00:23:24] S0: Jamie Dimon's like, we got to cut this shit. And that's Jamie Dimon talking.
00:23:24 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:23:24] S0: Jamie Dimon's like, we got to cut this shit. And that's Jamie Dimon talking. [00:23:29] S1: Yeah, that is Jamie Dimon talking. Now that said, I think what's really interesting here is maybe some of the analogies that we could draw to like a CB Insights or a Tegus, right? So all of those platforms are also involved in kind of curating together these investor reports, scraping this data. Now, one thing that makes those platforms so interesting is that they have these like proprietary interviews that they do with professionals or industry executives, right? So that's kind of their advantage on top of the public data scraping that they do. And so, you know, I was really interested in that because I asked him, was like, So are you just trying to replace Tegus and like take this one step further? And he's like, Well, that's just kind of hard to do. [00:24:13] S0: Because we don't have the data. [00:24:14] S1: We don't Well, he didn't They don't have the interviews, right? So that they don't have those coveted, like the interviews that they have with these people. And it just made me think, Wow, like you're telling me like an hour or two hour You're long [00:24:27] S0: telling me everything is a content company? [00:24:29] S1: Yeah, yeah. No kidding. But isn't that crazy to you? Like you're telling me the ability like someone taking the time or having the access to go interview like, I don't know, the CEO of Eli Lilly or whatever that looks like and putting it into a report is worth like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. Like, that's crazy to me.
00:24:29 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:24:29] S1: Yeah, yeah. No kidding. But isn't that crazy to you? Like you're telling me the ability like someone taking the time or having the access to go interview like, I don't know, the CEO of Eli Lilly or whatever that looks like and putting it into a report is worth like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. Like, that's crazy to me. [00:24:48] S0: I know. When we were interviewing those people, we should have been, you know, creating a data set out of those conversations. [00:24:53] S1: It's still very, very doable. Maybe we just like, it's all an access play at the end of the day. Dude, seems [00:24:58] S0: like the highest leverage play in media, honestly, to get these interviews and then paywall them in some way. [00:25:03] S1: 100%. It's crazy. So maybe they'll go in that direction at some point, too. [00:25:08] S0: Yes. But I think it brings up another point in that I think a challenge for Rogo is going to be relying like specifically on lots of data streams that these companies are already paying for, integrating with them and not having their own proprietary data. [00:25:21] S1: Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe this will become their proprietary data. It's like right now they're using trusted reports and resources that everyone is accustomed to, but maybe they'll kind of start sprinkling in their own stuff. And it's like original data or reports curated by maybe boots on the ground that they have, right? [00:25:38] S0: But that's hard to pull off and execute. [00:25:40] S1: Well, about like Bloomberg... Because every
00:25:40 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:25:40] S1: Well, about like Bloomberg... Because every [00:25:41] S0: all of these data players are building an AI feature. Yeah. Or they're building a GBTU interface for natural language. [00:25:47] S1: Sure, sure. No, I hear you. I think, again, if we go back to Bloomberg though, right? It is like, it is kind of that playbook as well. It's yes, they were a software and a data provider, but they also had their own media company. And before you know it, like the software provider is pulling from journalism that Bloomberg, the media company is doing. So vertically I remember Bloomberg [00:26:06] S0: was like, yeah, every article I put out, it sold more terminals. If only if only every company could be a media company, bro. [00:26:13] S1: Own your distribution, kids. I think that's we're telling you. [00:26:15] S0: Yeah. And if you wanna build out some media, come to the boys, Mike and Simi. [00:26:20] S1: I think two other learnings that can be applied here, and this is more so from Bloomberg than I would say Rogo, but sell before the product is out. I think that's so important. We used to talk a lot about that, but you don't want to spend, you know, a year or two years, whatever that looks like, developing out a product and at the ass end of it, realize like there's no customers for this. And I think that's what Bloomberg did really, really well. He was out selling the terminal before that thing existed. This was like back in the eighties. [00:26:47] S0: Right? Yeah. What he would do is he would just like deliver coffee at age 40. [00:26:50] S1: Yeah.
00:26:50 · Simran Sandhu, Michael Sikand
[00:26:50] S1: Yeah. [00:26:51] S0: I think the thing about Bloomberg is he made 10,000,000, but he always had such a chip on his shoulder. And as a result of that, he never had the... This preppy, pretentious nature of a banker. Like, he was always willing to almost self flagellate, right, to to get deals. And it's like he just kind of was able to put his ego to the side even though he's done all this stuff, and he built one of the best businesses in modern history. Yeah. He was always able to put his ego aside and get back to the sales tactics that work for people like you and I, which is very scrappy stuff. [00:27:20] S1: Well, I think people get this wrong, which is like when they think they're an owner or a CEO, they're just like sitting on their ivory tower shouting down commands from the bottom. But actually, as an owner, that... It's the complete opposite. You gotta be able to do the work that no one wants to do, right? Like the... [00:27:37] S0: Well, you you also read Schwarzman's biography, right? Absolutely. And and when they launched that firm, they put out the ad in the Wall Street Journal and nobody called. Yeah. Nobody called. And just because he was Mike Bloomberg and was a partner at Lehman Brothers, what does that mean? You're gonna buy a software from this guy? Like, there's just no translation. [00:27:50] S1: He wasn't at Lehman Brothers, I don't think. [00:27:52] S0: I think he was at Lehman, yeah.
00:27:52 · Michael Sikand, Simran Sandhu
[00:27:52] S0: I think he was at Lehman, yeah. [00:27:53] S1: No, he was at Bear Stearns. It was like one of the other like... No, they shut down. It wasn't Lehman or it wasn't Bear Stearns, but yeah, he was definitely at one of those legacy banks. [00:28:05] S0: Salomon Brothers. [00:28:06] S1: Salomon Brothers. That's right. Yeah. So definitely like so funny that the learnings from three, four decades ago are still very relevant today. I think the other unique learning here is that building out software now, I realize it's cheaper than it's ever been. But at the end of the day, like don't be afraid to make it an agency that then develops into software business. Again, with Bloomberg, he was doing consulting. That was how he was getting money in the door. And then they funneled that money into the software in what is now the Bloomberg terminal. You know, again, that said, they were doing consulting for big banks at the time. So these were like six bigger contracts, the value in selling into finance. But, yeah, definitely like we see that so much, maybe even if it's on a smaller scale, but a tried and true model. [00:28:55] S0: Yeah. For sure. I mean, you know, and I know we talk about, like, going to the most profitable industry, but oftentimes, the most profitable industries have the longest sales cycles. So Yeah. He was saying he talks to CTOs and CDOs and the chief information security officer and CSOs, like all this stuff. It's And hard to get these deals through with these massive players, especially with a software package of this size.