Uncapped with Jack Altman
00:43:03 · Jack Altman, Ev Randle
[00:43:03] S0: That's scary. [00:43:03] S1: All those things. Like, a French supermarket suffered an attack that manipulated refrigeration controls and actually spoiled food. So I think that the issue is that now the systems that we thought were secure, because these are open source systems that have existed for fifteen years with humans looking to patch them and hack them in all sorts of ways, these critical systems to firmware and hardware and the overall internet, these are now getting exposed that only have been able to be exposed via these AI models. [00:43:35] S0: Yeah, and you can patch the software, but can't really patch the hardware. Yeah. [00:43:37] S1: And so it's like, you know, people are like, oh, like, you know, like, update your smart TV. It's like, what the fuck? Yeah. Like, my TV [00:43:44] S0: What's wrong with the TV? [00:43:44] S1: Like, what... Like, you know, and they're like, oh, disconnect it from the Internet. Yeah. Like, well, that's really scary. [00:43:48] S0: Yeah. You have a Samsung frame. Smash it immediately.
00:43:48 · Jack Altman, Ev Randle
[00:43:48] S0: Yeah. You have a Samsung frame. Smash it immediately. [00:43:50] S1: Yeah. Like, yeah. Smash all of your smart devices in your home or disconnect it from the Internet. So I feel like it just feels so much more widespread and intrusive Mhmm. Than than before, which is why it's now sort of... Like, I I, you know, I definitely bought YubiKeys a couple of days ago. Like, I I wanna go through the whole... Actually, Andre Karpathy has a really good blog post on digital hygiene Yeah. And just things you should do. And I feel like for the first time, given the the parallelism and the scale that people can use and just the extent to which these things that we're seeing as strongholds like PHP are being hacked, it's like, Okay, this is for real. I think the really interesting thing there's one other piece of the cyber thing is this idea of obliterated models. [00:44:34] S0: Mhmm.
00:44:34 · Jack Altman, Ev Randle
[00:44:34] S0: Mhmm. [00:44:35] S1: So an obliterated model is an open weight model that has its internal sort of safety guards removed and... To help help with its work. Because, you know, ultimately, like, when the Hugging Face incident happened, they had some complaints where they're like, we had to use an open source model because we get the Frontier Labs to turn off the safety guards in time to help us with the hack. And so obliterated models are literally open weight models that have no safety guards. So it's very scary, and I think one of these is actually what some groups in China have been using I think it's called RTX have been using to commit some of these hacks globally. It's also an incredible defense tool for enterprises. Because you take an obliterated model, you do what that CEO told us, and you just say, hack us. Like, hack us to death. But obviously, you're the one using it, and so nothing actually happens from it. And that is, I think, going to be an incredible tool. You need these models that will because guess what? The adversaries have obliterated models. The adversaries are not working with safety controls. You need to see the tools that they're using and use it on your own infrastructure. And I feel like we're going to hear a lot more about this idea of obliterated models.
00:45:46 · Jack Altman, Ev Randle
[00:45:46] S0: By the way, I think the tech world, which I think is mostly a good thing, at first, I would say reacted negatively to pacing the frontier type stuff. And there's much more of just a let it rip mindset, which is very libertarian, tech forward good. I think that's basically a good thing. But this security dynamic is an instance where it not going too fast would be very helpful because you actually do want the defenses to penetrate before we have four generations forward of models. That's right. Because you do need things to get a little time to harden against this stuff. [00:46:21] S1: It is, but this is the crazy thing is how long do we think it's going to take to harden all this stuff? [00:46:27] S0: It's going take a [00:46:27] S1: long time. Think about I don't know, think about a hospital system in West Virginia. How long is it going to take for them to because I think if you talk to some of these cybersecurity professionals, they're like, we basically have to re architect. This is the biggest code modernization project in all of history. [00:46:43] S0: That's what we need cognition for. [00:46:44] S1: That's right. That's what we need. That's what we need cognition for. [00:46:48] S0: But I I think like I was going [00:46:50] S1: to try to do an ad read there. Yeah. Cognition. Update your Cognition. Update your code. And security.
00:46:56 · Jack Altman
[00:46:56] S0: That's good. But it's going to take a long time. But the hope I have is that, like we were talking about in the cloud era, it's like people bought Workday and Salesforce on these really elongated timelines. And they were slow. And if you were talking to a government or a hospital or a law firm, it was like thirty six month cycles on some of this stuff. That's not really how it's going right now on the purchasing of software side. I think people are pretty alert. So the hope would be that people see the security stuff for real, people are making it a top priority, And everybody reacts a lot faster than you think. I still don't think that that means it happens in three months. But maybe in twelve months, people could do a lot. That'd be amazing. I think people see the urgency. Yeah, Hopefully. And maybe as a as a last topic, the... Think what's cool is the bio thing is interesting to me because I've kind of been of the view... I still am of the view that all the software improvements that we're making are awesome, but there is a ceiling to how much that can improve the world. And if you touch some grass and you get out of San Francisco and you're like, what will actually make the world a better place? It's not that we're shipping software way faster and way more easily. It's things like people have better housing, or people live longer, or people live healthier, or people have food, or people have transportation. It's physical things. I just think there's a limit to what you can get when it's all in the screen. And bio, to me, would be one of the very best possible things if we're discovering drug targets and finding amazing new drugs quickly or at all. That would be... What are laughing about? So anyway So you
00:48:48 · Ev Randle, Jack Altman
[00:48:48] S1: were on a good tirade. [00:48:48] S0: I was on a good tirade. So anyway... But I think that it is both really promising, and it seems like it's on the horizon. Same as robotics, by the way. [00:48:55] S1: Yeah. Similar. Those are [00:48:57] S0: the two to me where you see the labs both talking about it, building teams around it, purchasing huge amount of data around it. They're writing about it publicly. And so I think that that to me is likely an indicator that it's there. I mean, I haven't yet seen the labs be wrong when they say something's coming. [00:49:16] S1: That's [00:49:17] S0: right. Getting the timeline right is really difficult. With self driving, took Now it's fully here, but it took a while. And self driving, Tesla's obviously dominant. But a lot of that was because of just infinite data. And once you get enough data at these things, maybe it just works. [00:49:32] S1: I think that's... And that's the... There's this really weird sort of, like, inverse relationship between... I completely agree. I feel like you you you... Do you want, like, the... Do you want the rest of America who doesn't have, like, an amazing, I think, view on AI? Or at least a lot of people don't throughout the world and in America don't have an amazing view on AI. Do you want to change perception of AI, solve disease, save people's lives, help people live longer, build more housing so housing prices are lower, create physical abundance? [00:50:01] S0: That's what makes a better world.