02:17:41 · Nick Grossman, Eliot Pence
[02:17:41] S7: Yeah. That's a really good question. And I think one important idea here is we're not just talking about will there be other agents that compete with Claude or ChadJPT. Like, will people build sort of, like, personified agents, and how will those get to market? I think that's one version of what agents look like. Another version of what agents look like is, like, cloud infrastructure, where every, you know, company that's building any system is gonna have agents and the orchestration of hundreds or thousands of agents built into their underlying, you know, platform, whether that's an app or whether that's an enterprise or or anything else. And so if you I think part of the Rebel Alliance thesis for us is agents are moving from sort of people you like, personified people you hire to cloud infrastructure. [02:18:30] S11: Yeah.
02:18:30 · Nick Grossman
[02:18:30] S7: And and it and when we look at how agents are getting deployed and orchestrated today, it's not just I'm hiring an agent and it's showing up in my Slack. It's like I'm programmatically spawning, you know, 50 agents, you know, to go sort of be part of whatever system I'm building. So if you think of agents as infrastructure as opposed to agents as employees, I think that's where a lot of these forces come into play where every every company, every enterprise who's building in an agentic style is going to need model routing, model choice, orchestration, know, memory, you know, some sort of harness, and there's there's different options at each of these as you're building up agentic systems. So so that's like really a big driver of this is the move from agents as people to agentic systems that have all of these layers in place and have more of like corporate's the wrong word, but like a more of a production vibe to them where they're gonna get built by professionals who wanna have control and who are gonna wanna lay them out in increasingly sophisticated ways. And so so I feel deeply, like like, very, very strong that that's happening. I see it everywhere. And I think a big like, a lot of the stuff that we're looking at right now in the agentic stack is, like, kind of low level, like, networking and identity and payments and all these, like, pieces you need in order to compose and orchestrate agents. We're moving from, like, agent as employee to agent as infrastructure, and and I think that also is, like, a big driver of how why we believe so much in the Rebel Alliance thesis.
02:20:01 · John Coogan, Nick Grossman, Jordi Hays
[02:20:01] S1: Last question. Can you take me through the financials, what they might look like at a Rebel Alliance company versus a non Rebel Alliance company? When I think about a lab, they might spend $1,000,000,000 on a training run, amortize it over months, and there might be all these GPU commits, they're spending money like an industrial company sometimes. If you're building a rebel alliance company, does it look different? Is it all talent? Are you subsidizing tokens at some point? Is it cost of customer acquisition? What are you pattern matching to in terms of like the shape of the business? Are we doing twelve- to eighteen month runway here? Like how are you thinking about deploying capital and watching that capital flow through the business at the early mid stage of a company? [02:20:49] S7: Yeah. It's good that you brought up, like, capital intensity. Right? So I think because I think an idea here is there's this category of hyper capital intensive AI companies Yeah. Which is the big labs. [02:20:59] S0: Yeah.
02:20:59 · Jordi Hays, Nick Grossman
[02:20:59] S0: Yeah. [02:21:00] S7: And then there's kind of everything else maybe that's like less capital intensive. Yeah. You know, we have a portfolio company called Pluralis Research that does model training, but in a decentralized network using, you know, compute that's scattered around the Internet. So you can still do training in a capital light way. I think that's possible. I don't wanna make it seem like the all the models must be capital intensive in the form of a single company, but I think generally speaking, you're looking for things that are more capital light. A lot of the things in the middle, like harnesses and memory and, you know, identity and payments, I think a lot of that looks like kind of regular tech companies. And then anything that sits at the sort of user level that's passing through token spend, you know, there's a category of margin profile there that's that's new in the AI era. Right? You're either taking a loss on on token spend pass through to the big labs, or you're, like, eking out margin by swapping out models. And so I do think there's, like, actually it's almost like this barbell of capital intensity where at the at the model layer, there's a lot of capital required. And at application the layer, there can be if you're subsidizing a lot of token spend, certainly on a free tier or or something like that. But there's a lot in the middle that I think has more of a traditional capital
02:22:12 · John Coogan, Nick Grossman, Jordi Hays
[02:22:12] S1: And it's just all wildly different than web two where a dollar of revenue was usually a dollar of gross profit, basically. Yeah. Now Not anymore. You might see 60% gross margins. You might see 20. You might see 90. It just depends on how the entrepreneur has positioned the business and what [02:22:28] S7: the shit 20% gross margins for some application companies is like great. [02:22:33] S1: Yeah. Yeah. It might be negative 50% for some if they're going really fast. Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time. [02:22:39] S0: Really fun chat, and we'll talk Yeah. Great to have you on. [02:22:41] S7: Yeah. My pleasure. [02:22:42] S1: Have a good rest of day. [02:22:42] S7: Thank you so much. [02:22:43] S1: Goodbye. Let me tell you about public investing for those that take it seriously. Stocks, options, bond, crypto, treasuries, and more with great customer service. Our next guest is in the waiting room. We have Julian Hoenig from Amble. He's the co founder and chief design officer. Julian, welcome to the show. [02:23:01] S0: Round of applause. Round of applause. [02:23:04] S1: Hi, guys. We're very excited to have you. Very much enjoyed digging into the images of the new vehicle. Would love to [02:23:13] S0: I view you as an angel sent from heaven to make my dream motor vehicle. [02:23:18] S1: You saw the Ferrari Lucha and just snapped and said there has Enough. A different [02:23:23] S0: It's time to make something Actually, take
02:23:23 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Julian Hoenig
[02:23:23] S0: It's time to make something Actually, take [02:23:26] S1: us back. Tell us how you how you got here. Little bit of your history, and then some brief history on the company would be a great place to start. [02:23:34] S3: Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having me. Super excited. Yes. How did it start? I mean, it started with a pretty simple conversation with with me and my friend Jose, who is the co founder, one of the co founders, and he has this beautiful hotel in Portugal in Alentejo called Barrocal, and it's it's really beautiful. And he's building a second one on the coast with with directly on the coastline in the dunes, and he asked me, do you know of any good mobility solution or golf carts for for for my resort where everything is designed perfectly? And then, you know, I did some research before, and I think there's nothing that really, you know, fits your standard you have you have in in the resort. And we said, well, let's for fun, let's let's do something on let's design something for you. And this this this little idea became reality because we realized if one hotel wants this, probably more hotels wanted two. But also, if you make it street legal, you open up a whole new customer base. Right? And I I lived in in Pasadena. I lived in LA. So I [02:24:35] S1: You live in Pasadena, California? [02:24:37] S3: Yes. Got [02:24:37] S0: a Pasadena now. Right here. [02:24:39] S1: I live there currently. I was born there, raised. That's amazing. I and and I [02:24:44] S3: I went to AdSense. I mean, you're sure you know AdSense are there.