Life in Programmatic Digital Out-of-Home
00:00:02 · S0, Jon Mundy, Dan Larden
[00:00:02] S0: Life in Programmatic Digital Out of Home brought to you by JCDecaux. Bringing together the greatest minds, discussing the latest trends, and uncovering what life in programmatic digital out of home is all about. [00:00:26] S1: Welcome to another episode of the, Life in Programmatic Digital Out of Home podcast. This is me, Jon Mundy. I am an associate director on the programmatic demand team at JCDecaux, and I'm delighted to have Dan Larden from ISBA back again for another chat. This time, we're gonna have a conversation about the wonderful world of retail media. We talk about retail media a lot at the moment. It's almost as important in people's minds as prod... Programmatic digital out of home, so we thought let's bring the two together. So welcome, Dan. Good to have you back. [00:01:02] S2: Oh, it's great to be back. It only feels like yesterday I was here, Jon. But as we were just saying, it was a lot warmer last time, and we're now sitting here warming our hands after a cold walk through Edgware.
00:01:02 · Dan Larden, Jon Mundy
[00:01:02] S2: Oh, it's great to be back. It only feels like yesterday I was here, Jon. But as we were just saying, it was a lot warmer last time, and we're now sitting here warming our hands after a cold walk through Edgware. [00:01:11] S1: So, Dan, it's really good to have you here, obviously, because it's always good to have you around. But it'd be really interesting to have a chat about retail media. We talk about retail media a lot, and if you see it's... It is, as I I I mentioned earlier, it is something where it's getting a lot of press almost as much as programmatic Digital Out of Home. And I think I'm really good to get your take on it from a brand perspective and, you know, how it's how it's evolved. And I think, really, just kick it off, good to get to an idea of sort of why do you think retail media right now is something everyone's talking about as a channel for brands?
00:01:47 · Dan Larden
[00:01:47] S2: It certainly feels that way, doesn't it? Yeah. So I'm one year into ISBA as Head of Media, so my job is to speak to brands and understand what their priorities are. ISBA is completely driven by our brands, so we do essentially what they tell us to do. Think retail media has been on the agenda probably for a couple of years, that was largely the FMCG is driving it and essentially saying, we think this is going to grow, but we need some more standardization. So can you help us with that? So we've had quite a lot of discussions around this. We've got the ecosystem together to talk about driving it forward in standardization, and that's been about a two year process. So we have actually released some new standards around standards across retail media and largely focused on digital. And it's great that the IAB Europe now picked up those standards and it's now on its way to becoming a global framework. But outside of just the general sort of standardization piece, you're right in saying that it's becoming almost more than that now because every conversation we have with a brand, it's about how are they restructuring internally in order to make better use of retail media and incorporate retail media budgets in. We've got a bit ahead of ourselves because we're already talking about retail media without defining it. And I think this is the hardest part in that it's kind of... Remember remember back in the day that it was programmatic? Everyone just bandied around the word programmatic, and everyone sort of had a different idea of what it was? It feels very much the same with retail media. So I know from speaking to probably the large... Like, 10 of the largest FMCGs that they have to have definitions for retail media because that's how... Because they account for it within their spend, and that their P and Ls directly reference a lot of it. But none of them have a defined... None of them have a standard definition even of what retail media was. So that would be interesting to talk to you because I know when you talk about retail media from the supply side, it's probably different to what I'm thinking about.
00:04:03 · Jon Mundy
[00:04:03] S1: I think there's a lot of challenges. I think that we come from a programmatic background and and, you know, in programmatic, it's all too easy to look at retail media as something that is to do with online and ecommerce and that sort of thing. And actually, 84% of all transactions are not done online. They're done in stores. And so retail media is not not an online phenomenon. It's... It is it is a it is a bricks and mortar phenomenon phenomenon. And I think that I had a chat... Well, I don't think... I had a chat with Pete Woodvine, who's sort of retail media guru in in the JCDecaux just now, actually. And he's he's been really, really closely involved in developing our partnerships with with retailers such as Tesco and Waitrose and and how we work with the malls and how we develop our retail media offering. And I said, you know, what's what's the definition? He was like, yeah, it's easy to define. It says there's a definition here. And retail media essentially in his book is is when media and buying media is influenced by data that comes from the retailers. So if online, obviously that's very straightforward. But but if you look at the retail media that's bought in store and traditionally it's in store when it was, you know, shelf ends and that sort of thing that was based on knowledge from the retailers on where that media made sense. The thing that is changing now with the advance of programmatic digital out of home and programmatic generally is that that data is reaching beyond the store and the media owners, the stores are becoming media owners in their own rights. And so retail media essentially is anything where the data from the retailer influences the buying of the media.
00:05:45 · Dan Larden
[00:05:45] S2: I think that's a nice definition actually, because one definition that I've heard very recently on a podcast was any media which is owned and operated by a retailer. So any, actually, mean, you already referenced it because I think data is a great way of doing it because you've got the owned and operated media, and then you've got the data for targeting. And I think more importantly, now you've got the data for measurement. And I think that measurement of the data is the thing that's really driving retail media in itself, because for the first time an FMCG has a closed loop attribution. So it's being able to say, I showed this many ads and actually I shifted this many toothbrushes, this much purse or... And it's a quicker way around. But I think some people are kind of fascinated by the idea of retail media being owned and operated, but actually a slice of the pie now is coming on the off-site, run through DSPs. But also, it's even retailers or retail Tesco's and Dunhumby and Nectar, they're actually now running search campaigns on behalf of brands because they can measure that search media better than their agency can or better than they can themselves because they have that data. So, yeah. Now, let's go with your diff... That's a nice definition. I'll go with that.
00:07:04 · Jon Mundy
[00:07:04] S1: But I think the other thing that's really interesting here is if look beyond like all these things, you look to The US where where these things have been evolving in their own way for many years, and you see the rise of things like grocery TV and media owners that are in store. They're not the store owners. They're media owners that are in store, and they operate in store as networks essentially. And those guys are fascinating, and that... That's been a a really big evolution. Eventually, they are they are digital out of home networks. They're available through programmatic out of home channels and through the conventional DSPs. But they sit in this sort of hinterland between being a retailer and being a media owner. They're not the retailer. They are media owner, but they are in the retailers, you know, Space. Space. And to a certain degree, we are at Decaux. You know, we are at Tesco. We we have d six units, about 500 or so of them at major Tesco branches all around the country. And those are very closely... We work very closely with Tesco on that. In fact, we use Dunhumby data, to optimize campaigns accordingly. And Dunhumby and Tesco media also sell against those units alongside their in store placements. So you're right. The the things are merging between the retailer and other media owners. And, you know, what's to say that the the the the the JCDecaux d six on the high street right outside a bunch of boots isn't performing as retail media. Of course it is. If you ask, you know, one of the reasons Boots is our biggest programmatic media buyer this year on the retail sector is because it works for them, because they can use our sites right by their stores to drive footfall and drive traffic improve the value. So it's incredibly powerful. So out of home is retail media. Retail media is out of home. They both they work together.