00:26:09 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:26:09] S1: about something?... About everybody inside your company or for you? Meaning like... Yeah. Can I take the counter can I take the counter position and just get your reaction to it? Like like you have a 21 year old engineer, dropped out of school, joined your joined your startup, maybe you're a smaller company. [00:26:27] S0: Yeah. [00:26:27] S1: They have no experience, so they gotta make up for it through like horsepower. Yeah. Like do you feel that way for them too?
00:26:35 · Immad Akhund
[00:26:35] S0: You know, I I try to not like tell people how to live their life. Like, if someone wants to do it, and they feel like they're most productive there, and they, you know, they want to do the extra, and they're getting something out of it, go for it. Like, I I mostly say these things from like, this is my lived experience. Yeah. And I I would still say, even for that person, right, like, you know, if they worked... Whatever. If they didn't work on a Sunday, let's just say they're working Saturday and Sunday, like, would they be much less productive, or would they even be more productive? I would I would suppose that they'd be more productive Yeah. Than working seven days a week. So then you can kinda work it to the limit. Okay. You know, maybe they have more stamina than I do because I'm, like, 40. So, yeah, maybe they can work, you know, like, those five hours on Saturday, and, like, it's just as productive. So so, yeah, you can definitely, like, say this doesn't... This model doesn't fit everyone. But I I guess I would also go back to say, you know, like, I wanna do this my whole life. Like, I wanna... I basically... Like, after I did my first start up, I was like, this is so much better than working for anyone. I will do this for the rest of my life. So, like, what is the most life sustaining way of doing the start up? And or, you know, whatever this 21 year old is doing. I'm like, yeah, maybe, you know, at the age of 21, they should go date someone and, like, go do things in the evenings and weekends, and, like, that's probably fine. And and I don't know if that start up will get hurt that much by, like, that extra 10% of time that they're losing.
00:28:01 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:28:01] S1: Yeah. And you said you've, like, modulated it down to a reasonable amount of hours from your... What is reasonable in your mind? For me? [00:28:08] S0: Yeah. Yeah. I normally work, like, nine to six, five days a week. Yep. I I mean, like, I'm I'm still on Slack. I'm still thinking about it the rest of the time. So it's not like absolutely zero outside that, but but those are my core working hours. [00:28:22] S1: A friend of mine is the is the CEO of ZoomInfo, Henry Schuck. Have you met Henry? No. He's great. He's a great, great guy. [00:28:29] S0: Mhmm. [00:28:29] S1: And I think he's a great CEO. And one of the things that he was telling me recently was that he's basically taken all of his work dinners. Because you could be at a work dinner with a VC or customer or candidate all the time. Yep. And he's like, I just don't do them anymore. He's like, just... There were coffees. I think it'd be four or 05:00 coffees that have like decaf or whatever. Yeah. They'd be lunches. They'd be breakfasts. Mhmm. But he's like, I just don't do the dinners anymore. [00:28:58] S0: Yeah. And... And he's like that. And that's what he... And that's... He changed. Yep. [00:29:02] S1: And he has dinner with his daughter and his wife most nights, and I've I've started to try and do more of that. Mhmm. And I love it. Mhmm. I'm like, this is so nice. Like, I don't have to do any of these dinners. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can just move the meeting Yeah.
00:29:02 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:29:02] S1: And he has dinner with his daughter and his wife most nights, and I've I've started to try and do more of that. Mhmm. And I love it. Mhmm. I'm like, this is so nice. Like, I don't have to do any of these dinners. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can just move the meeting Yeah. [00:29:16] S0: Yeah. To whenever I think I should have the Yeah. I think that this is kinda what I was touching on earlier. I really feel like people should just do what they wanna do. Like, they should just stop listening to other people and just do what you wanna do. Like, if you wanna work seven days a week, whatever, do that. But like, yeah, I feel like a lot of startup world is like, there's like people who say things on on Twitter, on podcasts, and then other people are like, oh, I don't know how to run a startup. Like, I'm gonna go help you with this person is saying I should do. And yeah, if you're not enjoying the... Like, and actually, like, one thing that I think it is a low counter duty of is to do things not that you just wanna do, but that you enjoy doing. Like, if you enjoy having those dinners, like, think some people probably like networking, and they like meeting those people and having those dinners, then go do those dinners. But if you don't like them, just go go do a coffee. You know? Like, you just have to make these decisions. And I don't think there's that many wrong decisions. At least when it comes to how you live your life. I mean, there's obviously like wrong localized startup
00:29:16 · Immad Akhund, Joubin Mirzadegan
[00:29:16] S0: Yeah. To whenever I think I should have the Yeah. I think that this is kinda what I was touching on earlier. I really feel like people should just do what they wanna do. Like, they should just stop listening to other people and just do what you wanna do. Like, if you wanna work seven days a week, whatever, do that. But like, yeah, I feel like a lot of startup world is like, there's like people who say things on on Twitter, on podcasts, and then other people are like, oh, I don't know how to run a startup. Like, I'm gonna go help you with this person is saying I should do. And yeah, if you're not enjoying the... Like, and actually, like, one thing that I think it is a low counter duty of is to do things not that you just wanna do, but that you enjoy doing. Like, if you enjoy having those dinners, like, think some people probably like networking, and they like meeting those people and having those dinners, then go do those dinners. But if you don't like them, just go go do a coffee. You know? Like, you just have to make these decisions. And I don't think there's that many wrong decisions. At least when it comes to how you live your life. I mean, there's obviously like wrong localized startup [00:30:12] S1: decisions. I think the... Probably the like LARPing of it is just like you're... Feel like you're being judged by people, whether it's employees or VCs.
00:30:12 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:30:12] S1: decisions. I think the... Probably the like LARPing of it is just like you're... Feel like you're being judged by people, whether it's employees or VCs. [00:30:21] S0: I mean, who's judging people? I mean, who cares? Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. I don't... Like, yeah, no one's... I I think I think this judgment is, like, probably self judgment more than other people. I don't think there's that many VCs. [00:30:34] S1: Yeah. Like, you think it's your own internal model. Yeah. [00:30:36] S0: Yeah. Exactly. I think it's what you think you should be doing. Yeah. Yeah, at least my experience isn't like, I mean, VCs are like living a pretty relaxed life. It should be. That's my experience of it. So like, well, who are these people to judge you when they're like going on like six week vacations for the year or something like that? Yeah. I don't... I mean, there are hardworking VCs, but I think you should just do what you wanna do. And I mean, there's like, obviously, like, sometimes you'll have to work your ass off and that's just like part of being an entrepreneur. But I think that shouldn't be your default. Can I go to the next one? [00:31:13] S1: Yeah. And we touched on this a bit, but some non obvious traits you need to be an entrepreneur. Unrealistically optimistic, calm, resilient, and decisive under crisis, conviction in your ideas regardless of popular opinion. I think we covered the second one, But I'd be curious on the unrealistically optimistic and the conviction in your ideas regardless of popular opinion.