00:22:46 · Immad Akhund
[00:22:46] S0: So when I first started, you know, I didn't have any kids. You know, was very much like, wake up, get on a computer, you know, work all the way till midnight, go to sleep, wake up, get on a computer, etcetera. And then I had this, you know, I got married and I was 25. And then even then I had this kind of mindset, and it wasn't until I had my first kid, was relatively early, but I had my first when I was 27, where I was like, oh, actually I do have prioritize kinda outside my work life. So I I guess I had like this realization where I was like, you know, I'm at work all the time, but I'm actually that productive. And then you realize, like, when you don't have like a split between like work and life, which is, I think a lot of like early entrepreneurs are like that, you're not like really sitting there working all the time. Right? It's just... It's not possible to like... I mean, at least a lot of that time I was coding, as I said. Yeah. I'm... I have like a lot of energy and and stamina, but like, you know, you just can't sit in front of a computer and code straight for twelve hours. Like, you can do it as like one sprint, but consistently every freaking day for twelve hours, like, I just don't think I can personally not do it. And I and I realized I was kind of pretending to myself. Like, I'm there, you know, I'm on hacker news. I'm on Twitter. I'm on... You know, I'm DM ing people. And, yeah, I'm also coding, but, like, I'm just, like, switching between things. And I'm not really as focused as like, you know, the sort actual productive hours I get is not that much. And then, anyway, so eventually, you know, ended up producing my hours to like some... Something reasonable. And I realized like, actually, I was just as productive. And maybe even more productive because I was like, all the time I was in front of a computer, I was doing one thing, and I was like working and focused rather than kinda splitting attention between a bunch of things. So so that's one realization that's like, I think you can do sprints, but like in general, if you're committed for multi year kinda time period, you just don't get that much extra hours out of like working evenings and weekends, and being like super extreme about it. I definitely think this is kind of...
00:24:51 · Immad Akhund
I guess the first point I had is that you're doing the right thing matters so much more than doing the thing, if that makes sense. If you're... Like, even on micro decisions, like, if you're building the right features in the right way, that matters a lot more than building a 100 features. Doing the right thing, I think, does require you... I have my best ideas when I'm not in front of a computer, and I'm talking to people, and I'm not even doing work related things. It's kinda like processing in the back of your mind. So, yeah, I think that's like another element of it. But but yeah, I just feel like sometimes people are kinda pretending to themselves. Like, you know, I talk to some people, I'm like, yeah, are you really that engaged? And I think like, actually, it's like a it's a form of stress. Like, this feeling that you have to work all the time to be, like, succeed. And I think that, like, like, that kinda, like, stressful work where you're, like, really anxious and you're, like, you know, I'm, like, trying to get things done and blah blah blah. Like, I actually think you're not making the best decisions when you're, like, kinda stressing. You know what I mean? Like, is is it, like like, are your best decisions when you're, like, fairly calm and you're relaxed and you're, like, approaching things with a fresh mind, or are they when you're, like, kinda, like, haven't slept properly and you're like stressed
00:26:09 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:26:09] S1: about something?... About everybody inside your company or for you? Meaning like... Yeah. Can I take the counter can I take the counter position and just get your reaction to it? Like like you have a 21 year old engineer, dropped out of school, joined your joined your startup, maybe you're a smaller company. [00:26:27] S0: Yeah. [00:26:27] S1: They have no experience, so they gotta make up for it through like horsepower. Yeah. Like do you feel that way for them too?
00:26:35 · Immad Akhund
[00:26:35] S0: You know, I I try to not like tell people how to live their life. Like, if someone wants to do it, and they feel like they're most productive there, and they, you know, they want to do the extra, and they're getting something out of it, go for it. Like, I I mostly say these things from like, this is my lived experience. Yeah. And I I would still say, even for that person, right, like, you know, if they worked... Whatever. If they didn't work on a Sunday, let's just say they're working Saturday and Sunday, like, would they be much less productive, or would they even be more productive? I would I would suppose that they'd be more productive Yeah. Than working seven days a week. So then you can kinda work it to the limit. Okay. You know, maybe they have more stamina than I do because I'm, like, 40. So, yeah, maybe they can work, you know, like, those five hours on Saturday, and, like, it's just as productive. So so, yeah, you can definitely, like, say this doesn't... This model doesn't fit everyone. But I I guess I would also go back to say, you know, like, I wanna do this my whole life. Like, I wanna... I basically... Like, after I did my first start up, I was like, this is so much better than working for anyone. I will do this for the rest of my life. So, like, what is the most life sustaining way of doing the start up? And or, you know, whatever this 21 year old is doing. I'm like, yeah, maybe, you know, at the age of 21, they should go date someone and, like, go do things in the evenings and weekends, and, like, that's probably fine. And and I don't know if that start up will get hurt that much by, like, that extra 10% of time that they're losing.
00:28:01 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:28:01] S1: Yeah. And you said you've, like, modulated it down to a reasonable amount of hours from your... What is reasonable in your mind? For me? [00:28:08] S0: Yeah. Yeah. I normally work, like, nine to six, five days a week. Yep. I I mean, like, I'm I'm still on Slack. I'm still thinking about it the rest of the time. So it's not like absolutely zero outside that, but but those are my core working hours. [00:28:22] S1: A friend of mine is the is the CEO of ZoomInfo, Henry Schuck. Have you met Henry? No. He's great. He's a great, great guy. [00:28:29] S0: Mhmm. [00:28:29] S1: And I think he's a great CEO. And one of the things that he was telling me recently was that he's basically taken all of his work dinners. Because you could be at a work dinner with a VC or customer or candidate all the time. Yep. And he's like, I just don't do them anymore. He's like, just... There were coffees. I think it'd be four or 05:00 coffees that have like decaf or whatever. Yeah. They'd be lunches. They'd be breakfasts. Mhmm. But he's like, I just don't do the dinners anymore. [00:28:58] S0: Yeah. And... And he's like that. And that's what he... And that's... He changed. Yep. [00:29:02] S1: And he has dinner with his daughter and his wife most nights, and I've I've started to try and do more of that. Mhmm. And I love it. Mhmm. I'm like, this is so nice. Like, I don't have to do any of these dinners. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can just move the meeting Yeah.
00:29:02 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Immad Akhund
[00:29:02] S1: And he has dinner with his daughter and his wife most nights, and I've I've started to try and do more of that. Mhmm. And I love it. Mhmm. I'm like, this is so nice. Like, I don't have to do any of these dinners. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I can just move the meeting Yeah. [00:29:16] S0: Yeah. To whenever I think I should have the Yeah. I think that this is kinda what I was touching on earlier. I really feel like people should just do what they wanna do. Like, they should just stop listening to other people and just do what you wanna do. Like, if you wanna work seven days a week, whatever, do that. But like, yeah, I feel like a lot of startup world is like, there's like people who say things on on Twitter, on podcasts, and then other people are like, oh, I don't know how to run a startup. Like, I'm gonna go help you with this person is saying I should do. And yeah, if you're not enjoying the... Like, and actually, like, one thing that I think it is a low counter duty of is to do things not that you just wanna do, but that you enjoy doing. Like, if you enjoy having those dinners, like, think some people probably like networking, and they like meeting those people and having those dinners, then go do those dinners. But if you don't like them, just go go do a coffee. You know? Like, you just have to make these decisions. And I don't think there's that many wrong decisions. At least when it comes to how you live your life. I mean, there's obviously like wrong localized startup