00:44:05 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:44:05] S0: Mhmm. [00:44:05] S1: And so it's actually like the... It's pretty easy to figure out like, oh, this person's like... This person is earnest, they're genuine Mhmm. They're hardworking, they care about things, they like take pride in their work. Like, that's like... If you clear that bar, like, you know, there's other stuff that comes after that. There's technical skills and like all these specifics. But if you like clear that bar of they're like genuine, they're hardworking, they're earnest, they're... You know, they care about their craft, they take pride in their work, like, if you can clear that bar and they're, a nice person, we have a different way of saying it, but, like, they're, like, not an asshole, then, like, it's, like, you're gonna... You're... Like, the chances are you're gonna do well. Right? There's a bunch of, like, other pieces that we care about, like, you know, everybody gets home safely and and we have, a a culture of ultimate ownership and and, like, simplifying and automating things and and sort of, like, collaboration and sharing your Legos, like all those things are super important. But like the base level is is like, is somebody genuine? Are they earnest? Do they care about the work? Do they care about like, do they have intellectual humility and curiosity? Like, if you start there, which is pretty easy to read, right? Like, you're intellectually curious, like, I could tell that after talking to you for a few minutes. Yeah. Like, once you have that, like, you know,
00:45:12 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:45:12] S0: it's it's... Would you would you say you consider aptitude first or skills first? Because I know this is kind of a debate between... [00:45:17] S1: Aptitude versus skills. Yeah. So my typical bet is I will take somebody who has fewer skills but like more potential Mhmm. And is like willing to put in the [00:45:32] S0: work Mhmm. [00:45:33] S1: To be successful. Mhmm. I think, again, maybe this is just because I'm from the Midwest. My parents taught me to to work... Like, the value of hard work. Mhmm. But like, for me, it's like, if you're hardworking Mhmm. And you're earnest and you're genuine and you take pride in your work, I think you can do most things. [00:45:51] S0: Right. [00:45:52] S1: And so for me, it's like that mentality is the most important part. Like, these people here to like do something ambitious? Do they care about what they're doing? Do they work really hard at it? Mhmm. Like if you do those things, like I'm I'm super excited about that. And then, like, skills, like, skills, like, if you work hard and you're earnest and you take pride in your work, like, you can pick up a lot of stuff. Right. So I I I index less on that. [00:46:16] S0: I do have a question for Yeah. You're one of the first founders I've talked to whose company is valued over $1,000,000,000. Okay. We gotta get you some more founders, [00:46:24] S1: man.
00:46:24 · JC Lozano, Ryan Deng
[00:46:24] S1: man. [00:46:24] S0: I gotta I gotta level my own startup. I mean, we're still, like, at the pre seed level. I mean, you gotta get some coach on my way. But, like, you know, my question is, do you think that skills... I mean, I obviously said that, like, you know, new value after the growth skills, but if... I'm a generalist. Right? I can throw [00:46:42] S1: on a generalist. [00:46:42] S0: If I wanted to join your company Sure. And I didn't have the technical acumen Sure. To perform well, but I was really good at Cloud Co. Would you give would you would you give me a shot? Would you give me a shot, hon? Like, I'm really good with agents, you know? I'm fanning out these sub agents, you know? That's a good question. [00:47:02] S1: I mean, depends. Okay. There's all the other bars. But... So we... It's a good question. Uh-huh. You'd be considered. Really? [00:47:14] S0: For sure. [00:47:15] S1: Wow. Yeah. [00:47:17] S0: So hop on the cloud code everybody. Yeah.
00:47:17 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:47:17] S0: So hop on the cloud code everybody. Yeah. [00:47:25] S1: You would be considered. Look, like, the the cool thing about, like, all these large language models, right, is like, in some sense, it is, like, commoditizing some form of intelligence. Right? There's, like, all these debates about, like, what that actually means and all that good stuff. But I think everybody can agree. For most people, sensible people, can agree that it's, this is pretty crazy. Mhmm. And so that does shift the bar, I think, to like what else are you bringing to the table and that's maybe like you're very hardworking, you're very genuine, you're like very creative, like all these things matter a ton. That's not to say that technical skills don't matter, I actually think they matter even more. [00:48:01] S0: Explain to me why because you know... [00:48:03] S1: Because you gotta tell if the thing's lying or hallucinating. Mhmm. [00:48:06] S0: Okay. Like... What if the models get so good that it's just strictly based on like human nuance of how you interpret the answer? No longer is it like incorrect. Don't think that's... I think the models will get to a point where, hey, like, they're they're so good that like, this not a faction incorrect answer, it's just how you're interpreting the answer. Right? [00:48:26] S1: At some point, I'm sure they will. I don't think they're there yet. [00:48:29] S0: Oh, yeah.
00:48:29 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:48:29] S0: Oh, yeah. [00:48:29] S1: That makes sense. I think, like, at some point, they could be. Mhmm. But I think right now, like, problem that you have is just, like, the reason you still need skills and expertise and all this good stuff Right. Is because they sound exceptionally convincing and you still have to like understand like Mhmm. So at the end of the day, right, like you're gonna put up a building. There's like a... There's like a bunch of laws of engineering and... Sorry. There's a bunch of engineering rules and a bunch of laws of physics that are gonna tell you whether or not that thing's gonna fall or not. [00:48:56] S0: Right. [00:48:57] S1: Right? And so like They [00:48:58] S0: don't wanna be body coding any any buildings any time soon. [00:49:01] S1: So like, you... I really do think we all would feel better if like the people who are doing that, like, you know, they can use Cloud Code, they can use [00:49:07] S0: all these tools, [00:49:08] S1: but they should definitely know the underlying like principles Uh-huh. That they [00:49:12] S0: can do We we [00:49:13] S1: a check for them. [00:49:14] S0: We we call it slop cannon. [00:49:16] S1: Okay. Yeah. Slop cannon. [00:49:19] S0: Slop cannon. Yeah. It's when somebody uses an LLM and just takes it for face value all the way through. [00:49:24] S1: Got it. And then [00:49:25] S0: they start, engaging in psychofantasy with the agent and they start convincing it that it's correct. Like, no, no, you're wrong. This is the right way. And it's like, oh, actually, you're right.
00:49:25 · Ryan Deng, JC Lozano
[00:49:25] S0: they start, engaging in psychofantasy with the agent and they start convincing it that it's correct. Like, no, no, you're wrong. This is the right way. And it's like, oh, actually, you're right. [00:49:33] S1: Yeah. Understood. Yeah. Okay. [00:49:35] S0: So I've seen that too with some engineers, to be honest. [00:49:38] S1: Yeah. No. So it's like, it's... I think we we would all feel better and we all, you know, we need to take, like, go understand what its, like, basis of assumptions are. Is it running the right equations? Like, all that kind [00:49:49] S0: of good stuff.