00:20:41 · Ty Morse, Eric Jorgenson
[00:20:41] S0: It's like a few weeks. Like, I I it might been... Maybe it [00:20:43] S1: was even shorter than that. It might have been, like, days. Like... Or some number... Some dozens of hours where they were like, this is not compelling what we have to show. So, like, this is our move. It's, like, we've gotta go straight to [00:20:52] S0: a zero to 60 in four seconds, you know, on this smart little smart car. [00:20:56] S1: But that that... That's so much of what gave Tesla traction in the early days, I think, is people just had never felt, like, silent and immediate acceleration from torque like that. Like, you... And it gave so many people the sense of, like, oh, shit. Like, electric cars are not these, like, kind of wimpy, like, things. Like, this can be cool and performant and, like, maybe the electric car era has some, like, has some sauce. Like, this is gonna be awesome, not terrible, that helped, you know, car people and engineers and nerds, like, get excited about the prospect of actually building one of these things.
00:20:56 · Eric Jorgenson, Ty Morse
[00:20:56] S1: But that that... That's so much of what gave Tesla traction in the early days, I think, is people just had never felt, like, silent and immediate acceleration from torque like that. Like, you... And it gave so many people the sense of, like, oh, shit. Like, electric cars are not these, like, kind of wimpy, like, things. Like, this can be cool and performant and, like, maybe the electric car era has some, like, has some sauce. Like, this is gonna be awesome, not terrible, that helped, you know, car people and engineers and nerds, like, get excited about the prospect of actually building one of these things. [00:21:27] S0: There's this idea of action produces information. There's also something slightly different, which is just action produces action, where if you take the first step, normally, it's easier to take much more, you know, more steps. And so I feel like when he has a situation where he wants, you know, when he comes into the environment like a factory or something and there's not enough action happening, he gets worried. I I think a lot of people see this as him being an asshole calling in people at midnight or 2AM, but I almost feel like this is part of the game and people don't understand how powerful this is.
00:21:57 · Eric Jorgenson
[00:21:57] S1: Yeah. More than worried. That's it. Like, there's stories of him being, like, blowing up, basically, when he, I think he went to Starbase or something, and there was, like, five people working at the Rocket, and he went off. He was like, it is fucked up that there's only five people here. I've got, you know, 300 people on payroll. This place should look like a beehive, I think, twenty four seven is, like, actually his... Like, the way he talked about it, at least in that moment. And he's like, I'm setting up a camera, and I'm gonna... I want it to look like a time lapse beehive all the time. And, you know, reasonable people can say like, well, you're just like, that's an asshole thing to do. What matters is X, Y, Z. Like, you're... You could be more elegant and, you know, why do you need people to be working at 2AM? And I think that that sort of misses the point that, like, the cultures that Elon builds are high intensity, maximum effort at all times cultures. And the surges at many times have saved the company, like the Tesla Model three production surge or, you know, the the Starship surge, but there's also ones where he's, like, not... You know, in in the Isaacson book in particular, Isaacson seems to hard judge harshly some of the surges that he called, which is like there's no point in stacking the starship, on the booster at that particular time. And I think Elon would say, yes, but it's a very powerful demonstration to have this thing that looks like a skyscraper and have people be able to take photos of it and have it closer to ready because it manifests and catalyzes us to to get that work done. And so, you know, I kinda say I I would trust Isaacson less than Musk to decide which surges are gonna do the best for his company.
00:23:32 · Ty Morse
[00:23:32] S0: It's kind of funny when you have some, like, third party that hasn't ever built anything like that come in and be like, here's what I think makes sense. And it's like, but you have no track record to prove that it... Like, your thing works. So you're just talking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:46 · Eric Jorgenson
[00:23:46] S1: And it's a and it's a reasonable reasonable people criticize Elon for being unreasonable. And I think one of Elon's superpowers is being unreasonable. I mean, the the, quote, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. Like, the cultures that he builds by driving these surges and by insisting on this intensity and by ensuring that people are working at max effort all the time. It selects for the people who want to be in that kind of environment, and it's what drives... You know, it's very hard to just switch gears from like, oh, I normally drive, you know, the speed limit all the time, and I never push my car, but all of a sudden, I'm Max Verstappen, and I'm gonna be, you know, able to drive a Formula one course at top speed. No. Like, the people who are pushing the limit constantly are the ones who are able to push the limit most effectively. And so I think that's the cultural value that he tries to instill is maniacal urgency at all times, maximum effort, and you never know kind of which things are gonna break through and matter in retrospect. If you attack a bottleneck before it becomes a bottleneck, then you have saved time. If it was invisible, you might not necessarily know. But if you're pushing that urgency all the time, you're preventing future bottlenecks from arising that, again, is gonna accelerate the timeline and draw up the progress that the overall business is creating.
00:25:01 · Ty Morse, Eric Jorgenson
[00:25:01] S0: When we were talking about basically, like, this different evolution of Elon from, like, 1996 to later, at some point around 2012, 2013, he stops complaining about being CEO, and he just learns that, you know, that is a thing that he has to do. And then there's also this funny thing recently where he'll be, you know, live streaming, playing video games for seven hours or something and people, you know, six days a week, people are like, how the fuck is he doing this and also running these six different companies? Like, they're seeing the Rockets go up and he's just playing, you know, Diablo. It's very confusing. And the the conclusion that I've come to is that he's effectively done something similar to MrBeast. MrBeast would have someone shadow him for a year, try to clone him, basically impress the way of his thinking, the way he makes decisions, all this stuff into this other person. And then he could just have them go and basically be like a mini MrBeast clone. And I think Elon's kind of done the same thing where he's effectively got, like, 20, maybe 25 people, across his organizations that all think and act in the Elon way. [00:25:59] S1: Yeah. [00:25:59] S0: And then he can just have them execute his will autonomously without having to be there all the time. [00:26:04] S1: Yeah. I learned that actually in... Specifically from your interview with Sean Maguire, which is awesome. And he goes right into that off the top talking about how, like, we give Elon, the guy, a lot of credit for the things that are actually dozens of people or in some cases, like