Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:17:59 · Nikhyl Singhal, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:17:59] S1: And it might be that we just don't know what to make of design in this era. That might be a piece of it. The other piece might be just like there's product builders and then product information movers, and they're split up. I think that there are pixel generators and then there are tastemakers. And I worry that in design, maybe the industry itself conflates design with more production and not with taste. And so I think there's a lot of companies that you would talk to, and even when they were hiring head of design, they were thinking more around, "We need more production." And great designers are much more tastemakers. And I think that is probably... that bias is entering into the hiring plans in this era that we have today. [01:18:50] S0: What a wild time we're living through, Nikhyl. Holy moly. [01:18:54] S1: Yeah, isn't it funny that neither of us are operational? There are days when I'm like, "Man, am I so happy I have the time to work on this." And then other days that I think this is some of the most interesting... being operational right now is quite a ride. And so there's good and bad. And COVID wasn't easy. There was a lot of challenges around working and seeing so much change. So there's always something, but this one's... everything's being questioned, including how you define joy, which I think is just absolutely fascinating.
01:18:54 · Nikhyl Singhal, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:18:54] S1: Yeah, isn't it funny that neither of us are operational? There are days when I'm like, "Man, am I so happy I have the time to work on this." And then other days that I think this is some of the most interesting... being operational right now is quite a ride. And so there's good and bad. And COVID wasn't easy. There was a lot of challenges around working and seeing so much change. So there's always something, but this one's... everything's being questioned, including how you define joy, which I think is just absolutely fascinating. [01:19:29] S0: Chaos is a ladder, as Littlefinger famously said. Nikhyl, is there anything that we haven't covered? Anything else that you think is important for people to hear? Any other advice, anything you want to double down on before we wrap up and get to our very exciting lightning round?
01:19:29 · Lenny Rachitsky, Nikhyl Singhal
[01:19:29] S0: Chaos is a ladder, as Littlefinger famously said. Nikhyl, is there anything that we haven't covered? Anything else that you think is important for people to hear? Any other advice, anything you want to double down on before we wrap up and get to our very exciting lightning round? [01:19:45] S1: I would just say that there's a lot of room to be optimistic right now, but you have to find it within yourself to recognize that there is a small period of change and exhaustion that's required to find that moment of joy. And I just urge everyone to find those reserves to get there, because once you do, it's infectious, but the longer you wait, the harder it is to cross that chasm. And so I really want people to feel optimistic and find that moment of joy, but I also recognize that there is a lot of activation energy that it takes to get there. And so my hope is that you've... and there's a lot of people going through it. And so there's some safety in numbers here, but definitely I urge everyone to try their hand at rethinking their craft. [01:20:39] S0: And just to be clear, you are seeing many people in the community doing well, enjoying this, thriving, this is possible. [01:20:48] S1: Yeah, it's smiling exhaustion I see in my community. And before it was just exhaustion. So I take smiling exhaustion over exhaustion, but the pace is relentless. I don't have any... There's nothing I can say to sugarcoat that point.
01:20:48 · Nikhyl Singhal, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:20:48] S1: Yeah, it's smiling exhaustion I see in my community. And before it was just exhaustion. So I take smiling exhaustion over exhaustion, but the pace is relentless. I don't have any... There's nothing I can say to sugarcoat that point. [01:21:09] S0: What a time to be alive. Well, Nikhyl, with that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round. I've got five questions for you. Are you ready? [01:21:17] S1: Go. Go for it. [01:21:18] S0: What are two or three books that you find yourself recommending most to other people?
01:21:23 · Nikhyl Singhal
[01:21:23] S1: You know, Lenny, I'm not a reader. I hate to admit this, but I kind of vibe-code instead of most consumption of content right now. All of the reading I do is trying to stay up to date, and that was a casualty. So I don't listen to as many podcasts as I want to. I don't read as much as I want to, because I have so much information coming from the agents that I have deployed and all the stuff that's going on on Reddit and X and all that. So I don't have a great set of book suggestions, not unlike all your other guests that are great at this. They read prolifically, and I just don't. I mean, I'll tell you, I read... I don't know how much I loved it, and I'll just leave it in here in case people are interested, but I read this book called James, which James is the story of Huckleberry Finn told from Jim's point of view. I thought that was absolutely fascinating, because anytime you take a classic and then you look at it through the eyes of someone else, and what you realize is that story is quite powerful, but very haunting. And when you read Huckleberry Finn, you're a kid. So the distinction between seeing the innocence, as not only the book was written from Twain's perspective, who was quite forward-thinking, by the way, but you remember you were a kid at the time, and now as an adult, you see the book from another angle. I thought that was interesting. I don't know if I'd recommend it to your readers, but I thought I always look for things that I'm... unnatural stories that exist right in plain sight. So that was an example of that.
01:23:18 · Lenny Rachitsky, Nikhyl Singhal
[01:23:18] S0: I think somebody else has actually recommended that book, so that's a second mention. Next question. Do you have a favorite recent movie or TV show? You've already shared some vibe-coding favorites to be in the background. Anything else? [01:23:29] S1: Yeah. I mean, I think everyone's talking about Paradise. I mean, if you haven't watched season one and season two, it's on Hulu. [01:23:35] S0: Oh, is season two out? I didn't realize that. [01:23:37] S1: Season two is almost wrapping up, and I haven't watched season two yet. It's a little apocalyptic in nature, but it's absolute fascinating character drama about how people deal with very, very challenging times and what motivates individuals. The other one that I really like is Lioness, which is on Paramount Plus. Lioness is a story really about a covert CIA group and how they deal with protecting security for America, and the importance and what it means to commit to a bigger cause. I thought that was a really well-written show. So both of those I recommend. I do watch a ton of television, and as I mentioned, I vibe-code to certain shows. And these two I don't vibe-code to, because I have to pay attention. [01:24:30] S0: That's the new bar if something's great. [01:24:33] S1: Exactly. [01:24:34] S0: Okay. Do you have a favorite product you recently discovered that you really love? Could be an app, could be some gadget, could be something else.