00:34:19 · Priya, Anika, Maya
[00:34:19] S1: Yeah. They [00:34:20] S2: do. And I genuinely think that does make a difference. Because at the end of the day, like, not all of these companies, but a lot of these companies could have their employees working normal hours. And like, to your point, yeah, like AI means you should be able to produce more. But I think a lot of companies, like, people have a sense of like what their employees can do in a day. Like I think at my company, like my manager and like my manager's manager, like everyone understands like what can be done in a day. And like Like if you're Even with AI, like it's not... [00:34:48] S0: Yeah. Yeah. It's like AI has created this gold rush of like products to be built and everyone wants to build these products and then they compete with each other. And it's like, if you're gonna get to a billion or a $10,000,000,000 valuation in like a matter of two years, you can also lose that in a matter of a year. And so you just have to keep working to keep to stay alive. [00:35:06] S2: I also think, like, when you have a moment in time where everyone basically decides your industry is gonna die. And it's people that were, like, coding, right, are probably some of the smartest people in terms of, like, the schools they went to, like, their careers, whatever. And then they're being told like, you're all gonna be out of jobs. Like, this career is basically dead. [00:35:24] S1: Sorry. They react like Maya.
00:35:24 · Priya, Anika, Maya
[00:35:24] S1: Sorry. They react like Maya. [00:35:26] S2: Yeah. And like, I I genuinely think the reaction is like, these people just start working insane hours being like, I need to figure out how to like not get less behind. Yeah. [00:35:36] S0: Yeah. Well, because like the nature of the job is changing. Like, you don't work the way you used to work. Like, you make different decisions now than you used to. [00:35:42] S1: Yeah. And software engineering roles are up 14% year over year. Yeah. So we're actually hiring more people. [00:35:48] S2: Yeah. [00:35:49] S1: Not meta though. You should still go [00:35:51] S0: to school and get a CS degree. I have had to ask answer this question for multiple for multiple frantic parents. They're like, Maya, you know everything about AI. Like, can I? Should I still send my high school student to like a CS degree? And I'm like, yeah, it's okay. Like, you learn theory and the way to think in those colleges, like, that that just doesn't [00:36:10] S1: go away. You need a theoretical program. Like, think Berkeley and, like, CMU are, like, really theoretical programs, but I've heard of people that go to, like, other programs that are all Software engineering. Yeah. Software engineering, like, application based to basically set you up to get a good job. And I think, like, that is not a valuable degree to have. Yeah. I think, like, the valuable d... Degree to have is the theory, and you actually have to learn it and not use AI. [00:36:33] S0: Yeah. But I think it's no different than cheating on your test like...
00:36:33 · Maya, Anika, Priya
[00:36:33] S0: Yeah. But I think it's no different than cheating on your test like... [00:36:36] S2: Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing worth mentioning is this year alone, there's been over a 100,000 layoffs that have already happened in the tech sector alone. And people are like, is this because of AI? Is it not? And I feel like it's a combination of [00:36:49] S1: It's somewhere in middle, think. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. [00:36:52] S2: I also feel like it makes sense. Like, the reason why CEOs blame it on AI is because admitting that you have a bloated organization is like admitting your own mismanagement versus saying it's because of AI makes investors think you're on like the cutting edge. Yeah. Right? It's all Yeah. It's all [00:37:08] S1: It's all a little game. [00:37:10] S0: The other thing I wanted to talk about is Torsten Sløk, which is the chief economist at Apollo Global Management also published a note saying like pointing to the weekly ADP employment data. So ADP is basically like a payroll processor and they've now published like weekly employment data to understand like, are people getting hired? [00:37:26] S2: It was [00:37:26] S0: like, is job stable? And he said that there's zero evidence of AI related job losses. This And was pretty big because ADP process like processes one out of six, like people's paychecks essentially. I used to process my paycheck. Yeah. And so this is a... Essentially, was just making a point that like, the Jevons paradox is real here Mhmm. Which we can go into what that is. I don't know if you want to do that.
00:37:26 · Maya, Priya
[00:37:26] S0: like, is job stable? And he said that there's zero evidence of AI related job losses. This And was pretty big because ADP process like processes one out of six, like people's paychecks essentially. I used to process my paycheck. Yeah. And so this is a... Essentially, was just making a point that like, the Jevons paradox is real here Mhmm. Which we can go into what that is. I don't know if you want to do that. [00:37:50] S1: Yeah. It's basically just an economic principle. And when something becomes more efficient and easy to use, so in this case, like the example that's being used is AI, People end up using more of [00:37:58] S0: it overall instead of less. Yeah. I mean, I was looking into, like, historical research about this. [00:38:04] S1: Oh, god. We haven't done a historical deep dive in a long time. No.
00:38:04 · Priya, Maya
[00:38:04] S1: Oh, god. We haven't done a historical deep dive in a long time. No. [00:38:08] S0: I just like that it'd be fun to bring up. To talk about the coal? Well, okay. Coal is like obviously one, but I was I was trying to think of something else of like what to tell like the junior software engineers. And something that I found was telephone operations. So like, know, like the wire switching and stuff was a very common job for young American women in the early nineteen hundreds. And then they moved to like secretary and desk work or like other computer work after that. A lot of the people that got affected were the people who are already in those jobs. But any like new young college grads just knew to enter a different like job entirely or career entirely. And then the people that were able to get out of it were the people that were like really smart about switching. And so like my advice to any current software engineer is just, you know, be on top of like your career, make sure you're really thinking about what you want ten years out of now. Don't be afraid to actually switch domains entirely. Like, you're probably a smart person. If you were smart enough to be a software engineer, you can be smart enough to do other things too. But also for young, like, you know, career professionals in college, like, software engineering is [00:39:07] S1: not dead. You you just have
00:39:07 · Priya, Maya, Anika
[00:39:07] S1: not dead. You you just have [00:39:09] S0: to be a little bit smarter than you used to. Like that's like kind of what I would say is you you... Now you... Instead of doing the like simple like endpoint related tasks, there's like more deeper level, system level understanding that you have to go and accomplish. [00:39:22] S1: Which like, honestly, if you wanna move up in the in the field anyway, you're... You have to get there. Yeah. It's just like getting to there earlier. Yeah. I guess. And it's like it's like there will still [00:39:31] S0: be jobs for you. It's not like there's no jobs that exist. You just have to be a little bit more creative. Yeah. Yeah. Aw. [00:39:36] S1: That was so inspirational, Maya. Yeah. Maybe we [00:39:39] S0: can clip it. [00:39:40] S1: The example that David Solomon gave was ATMs. Like, bank tellers were really worried about their jobs when ATMs were created. Yeah. And then he was like, actually, like, there's more bank tellers than ever in The United States after that. So just because the ATM came doesn't mean that. [00:39:55] S2: Yeah. I do think drivers and certain jobs Are a little. Are gonna go Yeah. Are gonna be cooked. [00:40:01] S1: Yeah. But I think it's like... Yeah. [00:40:04] S0: There's just other things to do.