The Physics of Startups
00:13:24 · Rob Snyder
[00:13:24] S1: Yeah, so I mean this is this is a honestly, this is a kind of realization I've had in the past couple of days. And I'm I am it's all downstream of like actually thinking about what Hayek is saying in the counter-revolution of science, and then realizing holy cow, this is a massive thing that is missing. I didn't know this was missing until this week. It's it's just so crazy to me. And so when you um so now when you look at like startup books and sales books and business books, what you'll see is that they take this analytical approach to customers, right? To understanding customers. And so what that leads to is them describing basically customers as uh I would say annoying machines, like machine, defective machines that don't do what we want them to do. And so they give you, they give you kind of like these simple user manuals to the machines that are um that are like, I don't know, here's here's what worked with this stupid machine, right? Like here's here's what works with this stupid machine, here's how this stupid machine works, and um it's annoying, it's kind of getting in your way. And so, right, like on the path to your greatness, here's how to deal with these stupid machines that you have to deal with. And um And so it does. It and like if you look at stuff, it's basically like, okay, here's how to poke at the machine, right? Like the machine really the the these machines respond well if you challenge them, right? Like that's that's a um uh and and or or like you know, here's how these machines should behave. You know what? If if the machine sees 10x ROI, it's illogical for the machine not to to buy it, right? That's that's like Homo economicus, right? Like that's that's the kind of theory like uh theory of person as as rational uh uh you know, whatever. And so all of these are just bad in bad instruction manuals for a machine when the thing we're analyzing is not a machine and can't be understood like a machine.
00:15:35 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:15:35] S0: Yeah, yeah, fascinating. It's I have you know, I've uh I said economics in an undergrad, and then obviously through um uh through business school, it's like yeah, there there was like this this like weird way that you would talk about people, and this is probably what Hayek is getting at as an economist, but it's like there's the the rational, like when consumers behave rationally, this is what they do. But there's all these instances where they behave irrationally, and and it's like, oh, you're no, you're just you're just not explaining it correctly. [00:16:04] S1: Like uh, right, right, right. Yeah, the whole thing on like behavioral economics and all the biases and all this kind of stuff, it's like, okay, cool, we're describing a rational mind and deviations from that. None of that is actually relevant. Like, none of it, like this is all a kind of like path down a dumb uh down in a dumb direction. I promise you, if I can't describe this well, if you read Hayek, well well, Hayek is like basically impossible to read. If you read an AI summary of Hayek and have a conversation with your AI of choice to like dumb it down to like our levels or your level if you uh uh it it will change your view of the world. It is so useful.
00:16:04 · Rob Snyder, S0
[00:16:04] S1: Like uh, right, right, right. Yeah, the whole thing on like behavioral economics and all the biases and all this kind of stuff, it's like, okay, cool, we're describing a rational mind and deviations from that. None of that is actually relevant. Like, none of it, like this is all a kind of like path down a dumb uh down in a dumb direction. I promise you, if I can't describe this well, if you read Hayek, well well, Hayek is like basically impossible to read. If you read an AI summary of Hayek and have a conversation with your AI of choice to like dumb it down to like our levels or your level if you uh uh it it will change your view of the world. It is so useful. [00:16:49] S0: Awesome. Uh let's let's make this practical before we uh before we wrap Rum. How should a founder do me search properly? Like what help help pretend that I'm an idiot. Uh pretend that I'm one of the stupid machines. Help help me uh like do me search in a way that you find useful and and that's gonna give me the lessons that I need in order to better sell to customers, to better design products for customers, et cetera.
00:17:16 · Rob Snyder, S0
[00:17:16] S1: Yeah, so so I would just start by thinking of a big purchase that you have made. So I I talk about buying a Honda CRV in here, and um, and and my story of that. But think of a big purchase you've made and just kind of walk through the story in your own mind, what it was like, what your situation was, how it was changing, what drove you to do something versus do nothing. Like, why did you choose the thing you did choose? And that um the doing it with a bank purchase is often like fairly straightforward. Like, I didn't at no point did I want to buy a Honda CRV. At no point did I want to buy a car, right? Like I was I was basically pushed, kicking and screaming into buying a car. And yet, when I was at the dealership, I would have done literally anything to walk out with a Honda CRV based on the situation. And so, um, and so like understanding that and understanding what it felt like in the moment, in in kind of each moment along the way, when when you finally kind of got there, doing that with a big purchase, I think, is is going to be a good place to start because big purchases like are not usually that subtle in terms of why they happen. And then you can move to subtler and subtler purchases, and then you can start like understanding this not even for purchase things, but for actions you're taking. Like, why are you listening to this podcast right now? These kinds of things you can start to get away, nobody is self-hate. [00:18:48] S0: Yeah, like there's an accident, can't like the next button is broken on your iPhone.
00:18:48 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:18:48] S0: Yeah, like there's an accident, can't like the next button is broken on your iPhone. [00:18:56] S1: Um, but but like what, yeah, so and and so um just start to get into the practice of this. It will help you understand the pull framework, but really like the thing that's underneath the pull framework, the thing I've trying to describe with the pull framework, which is more important than the framework itself.
00:19:16 · S0
[00:19:16] S0: Yeah. You know, and um one area that I've specifically learned by doing this kind of thing is like when I when I purchase things for my business, you know, there's there's all like this theory of like ROI is required, like you have to build a business case for all of these things, and you've you have to, you know, it has to be a pain point. Frequently when I'm buying a um what I'm actually making a transaction for a Cumbra or increasingly with with you and me, I'll reflect, I'll be like, I never thought about ROI. I never like this wasn't a pain point. Like it's it's it's like, but there was something happened that triggered it. And then I'll and then I'll like pause and be like, okay, what what happened and what did I do as a result of that? Like, where did I look for? What what if somebody would have just like magically appeared in front of me with and said magic words, what would have been those words that would I would have been like, oh yeah, like give me that. I'll you know, just like let's get this out of the way and and purchase. Um, and that's it's you know, both in my personal life, you know, you mentioned the CRV, but then also like buying on behalf of a business, um, you know, and and and because we sell more in in the BB space, um, like has helped me empathize or like better understand like what's likely going on on the purchasers, like journey and background and what's going on in their head. Um, Rob, any other advice? Like what uh I think that what should founders do about this is like just start implementing this like kind of me search reflection in their lives. Anything else that you'd say, you know, customer or actually one thing you brought up is going back, and if this is not natural to you, I love the tactic of reach out to some folks that you thought were going to purchase and see if they'll just give you 15 minutes um and just like talk you through, like, hey, I thought this was a really good fit. You told me it was a good fit. Why didn't you buy? Like, be honest with me. You know, like I'll frequently say, like, throw cold water on my face. Like, you know, help that's the thing I need right now. Um, any anything, or I don't know if you'd think about that, or anything else you'd say founders could could do right now. Yeah, oh that that exercise is fascinating.