00:59:11 · Dmitry Zlokazov
[00:59:11] S0: I think the most spectacular failures probably were on the earlier stage of my career, which I started back at university. And maybe in my second year of university, started building some teams, different startups. And one of them was actually a product that makes me proud even now because it was, like, what, fifteen years ago. So twenty twenty ten, meaning, like, still no no one really had even iPhones back then. And me and my friends, we started building a website that allows people to buy tickets to the city so that they can skip the line, so they they don't need to come in advance to select best seats, and they can just buy a ticket online and go to their seats directly. Something that today seems as a commodity back then, like, no one had it. Like, people were using pieces of paper. And we built, like, an end to end system because not only we needed to build a website, but we also needed to build hardware to scan those tickets, for example. And and to have these tickets in digital format, we needed to hack SMS standard because, again, like, the people didn't have smartphones. They had this Nokia's... And we were sending images, QR codes inside an SMS, which which is like a heck of the of the standards in in a way. And then we were scanning those things with our own devices, and we built our own devices with scanners, and we actually, like... We created these these beautiful, like, devices made from stainless steel, which looked really nice inside the cinema halls. And I remember how I was excited about it with with my friends. We were like, what an amazing thing. It's like, look. We're we're bringing future here, but we actually spent all our investment on this hardware. And we were expecting that everyone will just rush into using our system. But it was a very low share of customers who started buying tickets online because people were not ready for it, which was growing quite slowly. And eventually, we had to close it because we simply ran out of money because we spent all of it on this hardware without any proven business model. Something that that currently looks like an obvious mistake. Back then, we were just, you know, enjoying building a product that we would love to use ourselves, which I think is is the right principle. But it also it also was a very painful lesson. You need to stay lean.
01:02:10 · Dmitry Zlokazov, Lenny Rachitsky
You need to validate things before you scale them. You need to think way more about the run rate of your business. So there were a lot of painful lessons for me. Since then, I also try to avoid working with hardware. I was just gonna say that. That's a [01:02:29] S1: common common challenge for startups trying to get right into hardware. Although I wouldn't be surprised now if Revolut launches something, another product, and this is this is a new product line of Revolut now that you've had that experience. [01:02:42] S0: Yeah. We launched Oh. POS terminals for acquiring. [01:02:48] S1: Alright. There we go. Dmitry, before we get to our very exciting lightning round, is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you think might be really helpful for listeners to hear, maybe a less wisdom nugget that you haven't already shared or even just something to kind of double down on that you've already shared? [01:03:04] S0: No. I think that it was an amazing chat, thanks, Lenny. We covered a lot of different topics. I would just maybe summarize that if you're excited to build certain things, never hesitate to do it. The best way to do it is probably your own startup. And it also what will give you the steepest possible learning curve. But then if you want to join a company, try to choose the one that has this highest entrepreneurial spirit and that will allow you to work as closer to a mode of a founder as you possibly can.
01:03:04 · Dmitry Zlokazov, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:03:04] S0: No. I think that it was an amazing chat, thanks, Lenny. We covered a lot of different topics. I would just maybe summarize that if you're excited to build certain things, never hesitate to do it. The best way to do it is probably your own startup. And it also what will give you the steepest possible learning curve. But then if you want to join a company, try to choose the one that has this highest entrepreneurial spirit and that will allow you to work as closer to a mode of a founder as you possibly can. [01:03:44] S1: That's a recurring theme in these conversations I'm having with companies that produce the PMs that have the steepest career trajectory. And so if... That that advice is exactly what I'm taking away from this too, assuming you want your career to accelerate really quickly after you go work at this company. Okay. Dmitry, with that, we've reached a very exciting lightning round. Are you ready? Yes. Let's go. Let's see. Here we go. Okay. First question. What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people?
01:03:44 · Lenny Rachitsky, Dmitry Zlokazov
[01:03:44] S1: That's a recurring theme in these conversations I'm having with companies that produce the PMs that have the steepest career trajectory. And so if... That that advice is exactly what I'm taking away from this too, assuming you want your career to accelerate really quickly after you go work at this company. Okay. Dmitry, with that, we've reached a very exciting lightning round. Are you ready? Yes. Let's go. Let's see. Here we go. Okay. First question. What are two or three books that you've recommended most to other people? [01:04:15] S0: The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. Actually, I read it quite some time ago, but I I found myself recommending it to other product managers most often. It's actually illustrative that to be a great product manager, someone needs to strive to be in a great CEO. And besides this book emphasizes the importance of building systematic solutions and scalable solutions, which is critical for scaling the company. Also, be... Being honest on how important it is to grind stuff. And then second book is... I I read it more recently, Built by Tony Fadell. I was really inspired by this one, especially given how I appreciate how it's not easy to build hardware and what what Tony was describing there. It's just it's just super exciting and and inspiring. And, also, I, you know, I think that there are different archetypes of product managers. There are people who tend to disrupt things more. Personally, I think about myself as of a builder. So Tony is a principle that he highlighted in the book. They they resonate with me a lot.
01:04:15 · Dmitry Zlokazov, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:04:15] S0: The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. Actually, I read it quite some time ago, but I I found myself recommending it to other product managers most often. It's actually illustrative that to be a great product manager, someone needs to strive to be in a great CEO. And besides this book emphasizes the importance of building systematic solutions and scalable solutions, which is critical for scaling the company. Also, be... Being honest on how important it is to grind stuff. And then second book is... I I read it more recently, Built by Tony Fadell. I was really inspired by this one, especially given how I appreciate how it's not easy to build hardware and what what Tony was describing there. It's just it's just super exciting and and inspiring. And, also, I, you know, I think that there are different archetypes of product managers. There are people who tend to disrupt things more. Personally, I think about myself as of a builder. So Tony is a principle that he highlighted in the book. They they resonate with me a lot. [01:05:44] S1: I'm trying to get Tony on the podcast. If anyone listening knows Tony Fidel and can nudge him, hey. Say yes to Lenny. That'd be great. I've been in touch with his team. He's not doing podcasts right now, but I'm trying to get him on. Okay. Moving on. Do have a favorite recent movie or TV show that you've really enjoyed?
01:05:44 · Lenny Rachitsky, Dmitry Zlokazov
[01:05:44] S1: I'm trying to get Tony on the podcast. If anyone listening knows Tony Fidel and can nudge him, hey. Say yes to Lenny. That'd be great. I've been in touch with his team. He's not doing podcasts right now, but I'm trying to get him on. Okay. Moving on. Do have a favorite recent movie or TV show that you've really enjoyed? [01:05:58] S0: I think the last movie I watched was Oppenheimer, and I really liked it. I always love watching biopics. I think they give you kind of a perspective and let you think about, you know, things in perspective. [01:06:16] S1: Is there a favorite product you recently discovered that you really love? [01:06:20] S0: Manus is a is a great thing. The AI agent. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's just like I was super impressed how I... I was mesmerized. Like, it's it's so autonomous and smooth, and I I just spent, like, a few hours the vibe coding, and I created this JavaScript app that sends me a rare English word every day to learn and remember. And it, like, it it... It's... It worked, and I was I was just amazed. [01:06:52] S1: What's what's it learned? What's a word you learned? [01:06:56] S0: Ineffable. It was the yes. [01:06:57] S1: I It was love that it's still going. That's great. Do you have a favorite life motto that you often come back to find useful in work or in life?