00:53:21 · Dmitry Zlokazov, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:53:21] S0: Yeah. I would just maybe highlight the aspect of this, like, going deep into details. Right? It's it's... There there are two main streams. First is, let's say, being technical, understanding how underlying systems work. But second is also, you know, building empathy towards customers, understand their possible contexts, and making sure that your product will satisfy each one of them. [00:53:46] S1: That's a great point. So it's like actually understanding the bare metal of what is happening and how it's possible, and then making the experience as simple and wowable as possible. [00:53:55] S0: There is also a third aspect, but it's a boring one. And it's a... It's it's like complying with all possible regulations and making sure that your product, you know, will will satisfy the regulator. But it's also an important part of the of the job. [00:54:12] S1: Like, what I get from that is just building patience.
00:54:12 · Lenny Rachitsky, Dmitry Zlokazov
[00:54:12] S1: Like, what I get from that is just building patience. [00:54:17] S0: Would say I would say it's actually being able to to unblock your team, and that sometimes requires product owners to steamroll changes. Because it it also means that, you know, you could easily get stuck with a lot of people just looking into each other and think, okay, can they approve it? Can they not approve it? We try to innovate on it. We try to automate as many things as possible. We use even AI models for that. But it also requires a product owner to be able to to get things done, you know, to just just getting people down to to consensus and understanding who your stakeholders, how to get them to the necessary decision, and then blocking your team so that eventually, like, the value is shipped to to customers. [00:55:10] S1: Awesome. So essentially, it's just getting shit done, plowing through blockers, dealing with many stakeholders. [00:55:17] S0: Yeah. That's always the most important. [00:55:20] S1: Okay. That... That's a great addition. I could see why that would be really helpful for folks that are trying to get ahead in their career. Okay. And then on the hiring piece, what you look for is raw intellect, drive, hunger, passion, essentially. Those are the first two. And then interestingly, non senior, non... Not people with a ton of experience in the problem space, more so focusing on intellect and hunger. Is there anything else in that bucket that you think is important that leads to people being really successful?
00:55:20 · Lenny Rachitsky, Dmitry Zlokazov
[00:55:20] S1: Okay. That... That's a great addition. I could see why that would be really helpful for folks that are trying to get ahead in their career. Okay. And then on the hiring piece, what you look for is raw intellect, drive, hunger, passion, essentially. Those are the first two. And then interestingly, non senior, non... Not people with a ton of experience in the problem space, more so focusing on intellect and hunger. Is there anything else in that bucket that you think is important that leads to people being really successful? [00:55:49] S0: Most importantly, it's, again, getting things done, getting your hands dirty. And, you know, like, great product owners are very hands on. They don't think of themselves as managers who just give tasks to people and wait them to to complete it. They they just go and get things done, and they understand that most important things they will likely have to do themselves. And they understand that there needs to be relentless focus on execution. And if something is 99% done, it's closer to 0% rather than 100%. [00:56:29] S1: Woah. Say more there. Is the... Kind of the insight there is just like things seem like they're 99% done, but they're actually very far from being done? [00:56:37] S0: Like, sometimes the product is built, but then product owners are the ones who also, you know, make sure that, for example, customer care team or sales and marketing team are using it to a full extent. Right? Because without it, it could be just another useless feature which no... And no one knows about it.
00:56:37 · Dmitry Zlokazov, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:56:37] S0: Like, sometimes the product is built, but then product owners are the ones who also, you know, make sure that, for example, customer care team or sales and marketing team are using it to a full extent. Right? Because without it, it could be just another useless feature which no... And no one knows about it. [00:56:56] S1: That is super cool. I like that mentality. Let me ask you something completely different. What's kind of the story of you landing at Revolut? I know you had to move your family. It was a whole adventure.
00:56:56 · Lenny Rachitsky, Dmitry Zlokazov
[00:56:56] S1: That is super cool. I like that mentality. Let me ask you something completely different. What's kind of the story of you landing at Revolut? I know you had to move your family. It was a whole adventure. [00:57:08] S0: My journey into Revolut actually coincided with me moving to The UK. So it was a completely new environment for for myself. It's it's it's a huge stress lot for the brain as well. And it's not only about using the other side of the lane on the road in The UK, but also it's a lot of things, for example, in the industry, like some concepts that I've never heard about. And, actually, I've never worked at fintech before, so I also changed the industry. So it was like a complete complete turnaround for for me and for my career. But I was I was very determined and excited about it, because everyone who I've been talking to, they were saying Revolut is, like, its top talent. He's a traveler. Like, all best product people are a traveler. And I I really wanted to be part of this great team. Eventually, it actually appeared to be advantageous for me because I also had this fresh view on things. And even in the Revolut app, which is actually way, way better than other banks' products. Right? But even there, I found some things that for me, because of this, like, lack of context, they were not intuitive, and I worked hard to... With the team to to to change that.
00:58:43 · Lenny Rachitsky
[00:58:43] S1: Okay. Great. I'm gonna take us to a recurring segment of the podcast. I'm gonna take us to fail corner. So in Fail Corner, the idea here is people come on this podcast. They share all these stories of success. Everything's always going great. But in reality, things don't often go great, and there's a lot of things that don't go right. Is there a story you could share where things went wrong in your career, where you failed with a product you're building or a moment in your career where things were looking really bad?