The Billboard Insider Podcast
00:20:57 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:20:57] S0: Yes. [00:20:57] S1: But we also need to let people who are just doing stand alone campaigns who say, okay. I I wanna measure my digital out of home as a stand alone channel, and that's where the mobile devices that travel past the board are are so important for us to be able to continue to understand what they are or where they've been Mhmm. And then build, you know, lift studies that show, you know, if you compare people who are exposed who are not exposed, here's how many more conversion metrics you saw, whatever you're trying to do online or offline sales. Mhmm. And so so we're on our way there, Dave, but it's... It it... It's a concern with Apple with what's about to happen with iOS 14 and then trying to kinda clamp down on some of the the location data access. [00:21:42] S0: And let's talk about that. It looks to me like in iOS 14, they're gonna go to allow you to opt to report your approximate location versus precise location. It also looks like there's going to be a lot more ability to go in and say, No, don't share this information with this app or don't share this with that. What impact are these items going to have on the quality of the location data you're able to get from people moving around with their smartphones? [00:22:12] S1: Yeah. And that's multibillion dollar question. Not even just for us. Mhmm. For the whole ad industry. [00:22:18] S0: Yes. [00:22:18] S1: This has tremendous ripple effects. [00:22:20] S0: Yes.
00:22:20 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:22:20] S0: Yes. [00:22:21] S1: The the short answer is we don't know until it comes out. Mhmm. And we start to see how how consumer behaves. Right? Because what what what Apple is doing, which it... So so many people in the ad industry are saying this is this is like a nefarious act. It's not even... It's it's not even, like, great for the consumers. It's just it's just Apple kinda exerting its force [00:22:42] S0: Mhmm. [00:22:42] S1: Is they are forcing you to have to... They will force you to have to opt in to the precise location of your of your of your phone to be to be included for the apps that that require location services. Mhmm. As opposed to what they've done in the past where it's... You have to opt out. [00:23:01] S0: Yes. [00:23:01] S1: And so app... Apple is almost saying, like, we have a problem in this country with people's privacy, and and so we're gonna decide to make it harder for companies to to deliver relevant services or or whatnot. And and and the consumer is gonna be smart enough to decide that they wanna go out of their way to turn it on. Mhmm. And in many ways, it's super messed up, not just from a business perspective, but they are they are they are too... Doing things to the detriment of consumers. And what what we found, and this is the unfortunate part, is that a lot of consumers just go with what's defaulted. [00:23:32] S0: Yes. [00:23:33] S1: You know? [00:23:33] S0: Like, Google [00:23:34] S1: in their settings and and turn things off. [00:23:35] S0: Right. Right.
00:23:35 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:23:35] S0: Right. Right. [00:23:36] S1: And so and so so it's a scary proposition where the quantity of observations Mhmm. Might... We don't know yet with the wait and see, might dramatically lower because of this. And, you know, I don't know if you if you read about this this this past week. Facebook put out a posting that with iOS 14, they may have to discontinue their audience network. Wow. They have they have their Facebook APIs and all of these different apps Mhmm. And new location services. Mhmm. And and and they think that if it happens the way that Apple has set it up and and if there's no further changes Mhmm. That they may have to discontinue that that whole... That service. So this definitely this definitely is a cross cutting concern. For us and out of home, the thing that really matters to us is obviously Geopath, our industry kind of a trade group that measures and provides estimated impressions. Mhmm. They're heavily reliant upon mobile as one... Not not not the whole, you know, way that they measure, but it's it's a big component just just like a lot of companies. Yes. And and then also our ability to quantify for attribution studies and for list studies. [00:24:44] S0: Yes.
00:24:44 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:24:44] S0: Yes. [00:24:44] S1: Yeah. Our ability to do those, it just means that you might have to have a larger campaign with more time or more ads served Mhmm. In order to measure it with statistical significance Mhmm. Which which definitely is the wrong direction that we wanna be heading in. We want smaller campaigns Yes. To be able to be made to to measure their impact. And so we have to keep a close eye. I know that Facebook has wrote that post because they're trying to also incite the developers and all of the rest of the advertising community to fight against this. Yep. You know? And and if there's an... Enough loud voices that are just... You know, unhappy with with Apple, maybe we can get them to switch it back from opt in... From having to opt in Mhmm. Versus the the other way. So so that's that's how I see it. We gotta keep a close eye. I'll definitely let you know probably by by December, by the end of the year. By December, there will hopefully be enough iPhones... IOS 14s out there, and and we'll know. [00:25:38] S0: Is the... Are... Is increasing privacy becoming an issue for non iOS phones? [00:25:43] S1: Well, non iOS phones means mostly Google Android. [00:25:47] S0: Yes. Yes. [00:25:48] S1: And Google Google's primary business model being ad sales. [00:25:51] S0: Yes. [00:25:52] S1: I I think they recognize the importance of supporting the ad community [00:25:55] S0: and Yep. Yep.
00:25:55 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:25:55] S0: and Yep. Yep. [00:25:57] S1: Not... While while also doing it in a consumer safe way. Yes. So so I think if you ask Google, they would say the same thing a lot of weird... Us are saying that Apple just is making a a big faux pas... Big wonder with trying to do something for people that... You know, without them necessarily demanding it Yes. And just kinda putting their own nose into how it should be done because Apple isn't an advertising centric business. Right? They're Yes. They make money selling hardware and services. Yes. And so, no, I'm not I'm not as concerned about Android devices. Mhmm. In the short term. [00:26:28] S0: Okay. Jonathan, what are some myths surrounding programmatic digital out of home that you think need debunking?
00:26:28 · Dave Westburg, Jonathan Gudai
[00:26:28] S0: Okay. Jonathan, what are some myths surrounding programmatic digital out of home that you think need debunking? [00:26:35] S1: You know, so it's it's changed over time. I'd say that, number one, programmatic should be looked at by the media owner as an extension of their business. Mhmm. And I think for a very long time, it was viewed as a competitive sales channel and as something that could be more of a risk. And so I think number one, you know, we are a partner with the media owners. We only make money when we sell ads on your billboards, Dave. Mhmm. And you set the prices. Like... But the number two myth is that the programmatic online, there was this fear of racing to the bottom that happened because there was so much supply and not as much demand. And so the price ended up going down, and and, you know, you were able to use programmatic as, a discounting Mhmm. Sort of approach, tactic as a buyer. But with us, media owners set the the floor price for the CPM they wanna sell at, and they could change that price whenever they want. [00:27:32] S0: Yep. [00:27:32] S1: So by removing that and also knowing that with... We're dealing with atoms and not pixels. Right? These are physical billboards, not screens where you can create a website instantly whenever you want to put banner ads. [00:27:43] S0: Yes.