Fintech Insider Podcast by 11:FS
00:20:21 · Matthew Goldman
[00:20:21] S3: I do think there's a need for it. I mean, we're in such early days of agentic commerce. And I I wrote about this in my newsletter cards for the win this week about what are the use cases people are using it for, and how are they getting access to it? And, what... I think the dispute part is a big big part of it. I think there is... There's some examples from other places where robots are taking over. Right? Like, think about self driving. There's been this conversation when the self driving car gets into an accident, who's at fault? And I think it's a very good analogy here because, like, chargebacks are never as simple as the merchant wins or the user wins. Sometimes the merchant wins and the bank loses, and the user still wins because the bank decides to make the consumer whole. Right? And that's a thing that, like, higher end brands or companies like American Express have long done. And I think the agentic layers are going to have to own some of the risk themselves as well. If I tell an agent to buy me dog food or whatever, and it goes and buys me cat food, that's not the merchant's fault. And it's not my fault. It's the agent's fault. And the merchant certainly shouldn't have to bear that risk. So I think it's very interesting to think about this, you know, the the chain has a new player in it now. It's no longer consumer merchant, consumer agent merchant. How do you tell your agent what it's allowed to do? And if the agent breaks its rules, who's at... You know, who's liable for that versus there will still be regular disputes. I could also order dog food. My agent could order dog food, and the merchant could send me cat food. And now it's the merchant's fault. So I've always been a fan of services like like Brad's because I think disputes are very expensive. And having intelligence layers and indemnifications and kind of the insurance that a regular merchant doesn't wanna deal with this is is a super valuable component. And it's just gonna get more complicated and also move at at lightning speed. I think the most amazing part about injected commerce is never has anything new in payments ever happened so fast, And we're all figuring it out in real time. Yeah.
00:22:25 · Brad Wiskirchen
[00:22:25] S4: And I think that's a great point. And I think having been involved in the payment sector now for two decades in my career, what I've seen time and time again is new tools, new processes are implemented is the merchants end up getting a little skittish, and so they can either deal with it or just cut it off entirely. And by cutting it off entirely, so if I was a merchant and said, no, I'm I'm I'm nervous about it engaging in commerce with a... With AI agents, then my propensity historically has been, I just won't do it. I'll just won't accept those transactions perhaps. What we're doing is providing a way for those merchants to enter competently into transactions in in a new in a new space. So... And we're not just doing it for merchants. I mean, obviously, we have CB nine one one. Chargebacks911 has the sister company, Fi911, which I run. And we provide services to Fintechs, banks, you name it, both on the acquiring side of the equation and the issuing side of the equation. We help them with by automating onboarding processes, risk management, risk maintenance. We provide compliance services, basically everything you need to engage in powers and and we do it so they can provide those services to their merchant customers. It's adjacent sales. It's helping them complete swing. It's helping them provide a holistic solution to their services. So what we're enabling, we're enabling not just merchants to engage in commerce with AgenTic AI, but also these larger players in the fintech and banking spaces to do it as well. And and it's just that security, that confidence that matters. We're... And we recognize that with institutions like that, you have to make the solution stupid simple because they have finite IT resources. So we've done it in a way where it's just a pixel on a checkout page. Super super simple integration. So, yeah, my son used to say that I make... It's safer to to to do business online, and and we're continuing that here, leveraging an extensive portfolio of AI native businesses and and products. So we're excited.
00:24:42 · Kate Moody
[00:24:42] S0: I always tend to find that kids do the best job at summarizing comp... Otherwise complex businesses and and job titles and things like that. So it's always my go to of my kids as well. Dan, keen to get your perspective when you sort of read this story, kind of what were the kind of key things that you were interested in or wanted to find out more about?
00:24:59 · Daniel Wills
[00:24:59] S2: Yeah. Absolutely. I I think Matthew's analogy of the the self driving car is is really, really fitting here. Also, for a more extreme analogy, thinking of going to the moon or going into space, there's a cohort of people that will really, really wanna do this and really, really wanna use it. There'll be the opposite cohort who won't wanna go anywhere near it, and then there'll be those people in the middle. I think those people in the middle who are open to it but want to know a bit more about it, what the terms are, will probably need a relatively large amount of control and transparency, which I think is completely reasonable given it's... You know, Matthew said, you know, this technology is moving so quickly. We we call it new, but I expect next week we'll be calling it old. It moves so quickly. I guess if they they know on what terms the agentic spending is is is within, then they'll be reasonably happy to to proceed as long as they know, you know, if someone's going into your house, you're probably okay with it. If they're gonna sit your dog and you're away, you're probably okay with it. If you know what rooms it's going into, if you know what it's doing, if something goes wrong, it's gonna flag it for you. So, you know, if there's limits set by the consumers, if there's explanations for for why the agentic spending is doing what it's doing, and, you know, if there's consumer confidence that if something does go wrong, it's it's put right relatively easily, then I guess, yeah, it's it's a good example of how you you can build trust with this technology as well, which obviously is going to benefit, hopefully, all businesses going forward.
00:26:33 · Kate Moody, Brad Wiskirchen
[00:26:33] S0: Yeah. I mean, Brad, keen to give you the final final word on this story. I suppose, obviously, it's really great to see initiatives like this come to market. What do you think is next? Like, what what are the next steps that need to happen in the agentic payment space to kind of help? Like, as Matthew was saying, like, this is just an incredibly rapidly evolving field, it might be really hard to answer, you know, what what's the next thing on the radar that you think needs to be fixed to help kind of this roll out as safely as possible? [00:26:58] S4: For a Genetic AI generally, not necessarily disputes. I think it is just making people feel comfortable that the appropriate guardrails are in place. I mean, you're not gonna get my mom to use Agentic AI unless she feels like that there's some sense of security that the agent isn't going to be going off on its own and and doing things that she doesn't want it to do. So the providers of the services need to make sure that the end consumer feels comfortable with that. And, I mean, there's too many stories even perpetuated by the LLMs right now that AI is doing what it wants. The last thing you want is to have your your bank account depleted by a rogue agent. So... And I don't think that's necessarily gonna happen, but but it behooves the people who provide the agentic AI services to instill certainty and confidence within the end consumer, just like we're trying to do with the merchants and the people and the and the players in the fintech and and banking sectors.
00:26:58 · Brad Wiskirchen, Kate Moody
[00:26:58] S4: For a Genetic AI generally, not necessarily disputes. I think it is just making people feel comfortable that the appropriate guardrails are in place. I mean, you're not gonna get my mom to use Agentic AI unless she feels like that there's some sense of security that the agent isn't going to be going off on its own and and doing things that she doesn't want it to do. So the providers of the services need to make sure that the end consumer feels comfortable with that. And, I mean, there's too many stories even perpetuated by the LLMs right now that AI is doing what it wants. The last thing you want is to have your your bank account depleted by a rogue agent. So... And I don't think that's necessarily gonna happen, but but it behooves the people who provide the agentic AI services to instill certainty and confidence within the end consumer, just like we're trying to do with the merchants and the people and the and the players in the fintech and and banking sectors. [00:27:57] S0: Yeah. No. Absolutely. Okay. On that note, we're just gonna take a very quick pause. We'll be back shortly.