00:38:41 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:38:41] S0: Good time to buy, not investment advice. [00:38:43] S1: But I think that a lot of software will do just fine or actually even amazing. And so then it's like, what are the properties of that software? Well, I think that network effects matter. I think network effects can show up not just in social and human situations, in collaboration or social networks, but also in marketplace liquidity. That is its own network effect. I think the sort of distribution of customer base matters. And I would say that boring software is not to be undercounted or things that people would call boring. Wouldn't But call it probably there are just so many things that you can find where the folks who are living the problem every day don't have that default impulse to go build software for it. And yet it's a huge problem. And finally, would say that the data liquidity that you can establish and how that can create context, how that context can create capability in a system, that is its own flywheel. And if you get that flywheel right, I think it's very value accruing to the customer in a way that can be extremely useful. So that's a lot of the stuff that I'm thinking about. [00:40:08] S0: And everyone is your customer. That's what I've [00:40:11] S1: I'm not sure [00:40:12] S0: if [00:40:13] S1: everyone, but we're lucky to have a lot of great software companies and companies around the world using Figma.
00:40:13 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:40:13] S1: everyone, but we're lucky to have a lot of great software companies and companies around the world using Figma. [00:40:19] S0: So let's talk about the evolution a little bit. This is another one of Christian's questions, but Figma evolved to platform from design to code to development and now multi product expansion. So where's the platform going next? [00:40:34] S1: I think both there's the impulse and the, like, quest of how do you take these surfaces and bring them more together. When you are leaning more into AI and generation, there's a huge opportunity in doing that in one place and not having to think about where do I start. And so that's something that I've always wanted to accomplish with Figma. It's extremely hard. And then there's also the question of like how broad can you go in terms of serving all the needs of a designer, which are growing and vast. I mean, designers are giving us the feedback that we used get from developers now. And so I think that if we could kind of do both of those and find ways to help people create their own tools on the platform, share them with their team, and get value out of that, that'll be really awesome. [00:41:23] S0: Lastly. [00:41:24] S1: Yeah. [00:41:25] S0: Well, not really lastly, but from Christian, why are you so bullish on SpaceX? [00:41:32] S1: Let's talk about SpaceX in the Pantone Lounge. [00:41:34] S0: Is SpaceX in the room with us right now? How are they?
00:41:34 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:41:34] S0: Is SpaceX in the room with us right now? How are they? [00:41:39] S1: First of all, I I think there's tons to be seen on, you know, AI and their cloud business, I guess. I really don't know how to read that. So let me just, like, remove all that for a moment [00:41:50] S0: Mhmm. [00:41:50] S1: The x AI part of it, and instead just talk about the non x AI part of it. I I mean, SpaceX is a great example of a company where you've got, amazing talent who are, I think, really missionary, and that talent, you know, goes and quests and conquers after challenge after challenge after challenge. And, I think that people lack imagination when it comes to what they can do on Earth and also what they can do in the stars and how important space can be in the long term. And I think that there's many categories that folks don't think of them going into, which they will go into probably. And I believe it could be a very, very important company for the century or the next. So I hope Figma can follow too. [00:42:46] S0: Elon Musk once said, if a product is special enough, it needs no logo. What do you think about that?
00:42:46 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:42:46] S0: Elon Musk once said, if a product is special enough, it needs no logo. What do you think about that? [00:42:53] S1: I actually think that that's right, but also if the product is that special, then I think it's probably got enough brand characteristics that it kind of functions as a logo. And so for example, a Tesla car. Can you take the Tesla logo off of a Tesla car? Sure. But you probably still know it's a Tesla. And if you don't, that's a problem for Tesla. And also, they have a logo. But I yeah. I think that overall, brand systems, you can do a lot with them, and there are many ways that, brands can show up to people. Logo is just a part of it. [00:43:29] S0: As we close out, Sorcery is proud to be sponsored by Brex, and they're all about performance and spending smarter moving faster as a startup or a large enterprise. I think performance really comes down to who you surround yourself with and, like, who you got inspired by, maybe who's mentored you along the way. Are there anybody in your circle or, like, on your career path of building out Figma that's really inspired you?
00:43:53 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:43:53] S1: So many. How long do we have? The I mean, look. Like, there are people that have mentored me and have no idea because it's from before Figma times, maybe we didn't interact as much during the building of Figma, but, like, there are voices in my head. You know? So folks from O'Reilly, LinkedIn, you know, Microsoft Research. I think that during Figma, the folks that I've got on the board have been incredible, and I'm very thankful for them, but also our employees. Our first manager hire, Shao, director of engineering at the time, he really taught me management. I didn't know anything. Was an intern before Figma. Just in general, I mean, we've had interns that have taught me stuff. We've had folks from anywhere in the org that I think you can learn from and also the community and just the folks that have surrounded us with great feedback. I mean, I'm so grateful early on, but today as well, for the designers that have sat down with me and given me that gift of feedback. We are very lucky as a design company to have designers as users and customers because they are trained to give good feedback. Yeah. So the feedback we get is so much better than, like, your average feedback that a company gets. And I never take that for granted, and I always count it as a blessing. But, yeah, I look for mentorship everywhere, and I'm very, very grateful for it. [00:45:22] S0: Amazing. I think Michael mentioned that you really like Allen
00:45:22 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:45:22] S0: Amazing. I think Michael mentioned that you really like Allen [00:45:26] S1: Allen K is awesome and there's many other HCI and sort of design thinkers that I also think are incredible looking back, but also I think that we need to get back to the sort of work that was done back by of '60s through '80s timeframe in terms of just what are the fundamental ways to think about using a computer in the first place and what are the possibilities. I think the only place we're seeing it right now is kind of in VR where it's really seen in a gaming context, but there are new interaction paradigms being created there. And that can exist in software too. Like, probably the last big one that people reference, if you just gotta look for the consensus opinion, is pull the refresh. Like, we can go further. And if you look at an iPad, like, why is it a big iPhone? You know? I think that there's so much more you can do with touch technology, but also with just more pervasive computing. And also as you go beyond that into the world of AI and different devices, different form factors, I think the future of design and interactivity is really gonna be fun. [00:46:53] S0: Like Snap specs. [00:46:54] S1: We'll see. Yeah. [00:46:57] S0: Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Dylan. Thank I know you're so busy right now. There's 10,000 people waiting to come in the doors. [00:47:03] S1: This is the I'm just we'll see it, but it's a it's a lot of fun, and I'm excited for the config, I'm thankful that you're here. Thank you. [00:47:09] S0: Enjoy. Appreciate it. Hey, it's Molly.