two & a half gamers
00:02:40 · Felix Braberg, Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar, Matej Lancaric
[00:02:40] S3: And you've been working in a lot of apps as well, right? That are kind of competing with Bending Spoons, correct? [00:02:46] S0: Yeah, I think, well, in the app space, there's a few categories that just print money, so we all go into the same categories. We end up all working in the same apps essentially. But yeah, I started with an AI language learning company about ten years ago, way before AI was anything similar That to what crazy I cool. Yeah. And actually, as a funny antidote, it took us three years to build that product and it still wasn't technically completely finished and proficient. And a few months ago, we got together with my co founders and we built the whole thing in one weekend using ChatGePTC. So that's the advance of technology that happened in the last few [00:03:21] S1: So you were going for like an LLM style of an app or a different approach? [00:03:27] S0: We were trying a lot of different approaches, but LLM wasn't in the state that it is Okay, [00:03:32] S1: okay. Yeah, just curious, like, why this transition happened, as you said? [00:03:36] S0: Also, that would be a good question for Technology. My [00:03:39] S2: Technology. The Jakub technology happened in like the ten years ago and now, so I guess.
00:03:39 · Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora, Felix Braberg
[00:03:39] S2: Technology. The Jakub technology happened in like the ten years ago and now, so I guess. [00:03:46] S0: There are more intelligent people on my team to answer those questions. Yeah, so that was the first And then I was the first employee at Reflectly, which was the first AI journaling company. We built the journaling category scaled to about 20,000,000 users. We acquired 12 companies in the first three years that I was there. During hyper growth phase, we're getting 10,000 installs per day with four people in the company, which was insane. I've never seen that before. And then, yeah, I exited that part and then became a hippie, went to travel the world, got bored, came back to Europe and now opened a new App Studio. Now I'm doing what Bending Spoons is doing. [00:04:25] S2: Good. Okay, perfect. [00:04:26] S3: Yeah, so exactly like that. So what we're going cover today, we're going to have a look at Bending Spoons portfolio, kind of how they do business and also break down how they do UA. A little bit about Bending Spoons first. [00:04:38] S2: But before we do that, my name is Matej Lancaric. [00:04:42] S3: I'm Felix Braberg. And we are your hosts. [00:04:47] S2: I fucked up. You fucked it up. Fucked it up. Okay. Anyway, yes. Can always be your home. Yeah, know. I know. But we are your hosts. So thank you very much. And funnily enough, Darius is from Slovakia. Now is outnumbered again. Now it's it's even more. Okay. Bending Spoons. Jokes aside, let's dive into Bending Spoons. It's interesting, sorry.
00:04:47 · Matej Lancaric, Felix Braberg, Darius Mora
[00:04:47] S2: I fucked up. You fucked it up. Fucked it up. Okay. Anyway, yes. Can always be your home. Yeah, know. I know. But we are your hosts. So thank you very much. And funnily enough, Darius is from Slovakia. Now is outnumbered again. Now it's it's even more. Okay. Bending Spoons. Jokes aside, let's dive into Bending Spoons. It's interesting, sorry. [00:05:13] S3: Sure. So a little background on Bending Spoons. So Bending Spoons was founded in 2013 by six co founders after a failed app startup. So... [00:05:23] S2: You know where? It was in Copenhagen. Copenhagen. Nice. [00:05:27] S3: Yeah. Everyone loves Copenhagen. That's from Slovakia. It's like, yeah, it's like your guys' Mecca. [00:05:32] S0: I've lived in Copenhagen myself. I loved it. [00:05:38] S2: Hello everybody. Thanks for joining this episode. Our sponsor, FastSpring, has delivered D2C at scale for over twenty years. They power top mobile publishers around the world and are reliably fast growing, profitable, and very financially secure. So FastSpring isn't just figuring out D2C on the heels of the recent VC investment. Their developer first platform and deep gaming and payment expertise have helped democratize global commerce for over two decades. There's no drama D2C partner. The real world experience scale fast. Spring is a partner that you can trust with your players. Quickly launch a new web store, replace an existing D2C vendor or just add redundant D2C vendor at fastspring.gg. Thank you very much guys for sponsoring this episode. Now let's get back to the content. Bye bye.
00:05:38 · Matej Lancaric, Felix Braberg
[00:05:38] S2: Hello everybody. Thanks for joining this episode. Our sponsor, FastSpring, has delivered D2C at scale for over twenty years. They power top mobile publishers around the world and are reliably fast growing, profitable, and very financially secure. So FastSpring isn't just figuring out D2C on the heels of the recent VC investment. Their developer first platform and deep gaming and payment expertise have helped democratize global commerce for over two decades. There's no drama D2C partner. The real world experience scale fast. Spring is a partner that you can trust with your players. Quickly launch a new web store, replace an existing D2C vendor or just add redundant D2C vendor at fastspring.gg. Thank you very much guys for sponsoring this episode. Now let's get back to the content. Bye bye. [00:06:40] S3: So Bending Spoons founding story is a little unique because they had no money. So the six co founders made an agreement that they all would look for jobs and whoever got the highest paying job would pay for rent and food for all the others while they worked on the business. So the one who got the highest paying job was CEO Luca Ferrari. Great name by the way. [00:07:04] S2: He joined McKinsey. [00:07:06] S3: Exactly. Yeah. He joined McKinsey where he worked for sixteen months while the other founders developed simple apps for the app stores. They had some moderate success, but no breakthrough success.
00:07:06 · Felix Braberg, Darius Mora, Matej Lancaric
[00:07:06] S3: Exactly. Yeah. He joined McKinsey where he worked for sixteen months while the other founders developed simple apps for the app stores. They had some moderate success, but no breakthrough success. [00:07:19] S0: This is basically like what a shitty deal. It's the smartest guy that has to do the boring shit while everybody else is having fun and not paying rent and just working. [00:07:27] S3: It's a great deal, [00:07:28] S2: Yeah, of course. [00:07:29] S3: So after no breakthrough success, this is when they decided to buy their first app, a keyboard app, which they bought for $15,000 and they then rewrote the software, changed the design and were able to drastically improve the revenue metrics. They then took the profits from this app and made the next purchase, which was larger and they managed to turn it around for a bigger profit. So this laid the grounds for the Bending Spoons business model, which focuses on buying assets, overhauling them and they describe it themselves as a mix between being a technology company and a private equity firm. The only [00:08:09] S2: difference Yeah, I'm very here close to Genesis, right? That sounds like them. [00:08:13] S3: No, no. The key difference between Genesis and here is that they take a very long term view and they never sell their assets. So Genesis sells their I don't know if they have actually, but yeah, I don't know. Darius, do you know if Genesis sells No, assets as well or [00:08:29] S2: I don't think so. It's just I think that they don't just buy them, but they invest.
00:08:29 · Matej Lancaric, Jakub Remiar, Darius Mora, Felix Braberg
[00:08:29] S2: I don't think so. It's just I think that they don't just buy them, but they invest. [00:08:34] S1: Genesis was like voodoo voodoo style Yes, exactly. [00:08:37] S2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not exactly the same, but very similar. [00:08:40] S0: Was Genesis building their own products from scratch as well? [00:08:43] S1: Genesis was... [00:08:45] S2: They were. [00:08:45] S1: Yeah, this is the game industry model that we use during the hyper casual era where you are pretty much financing the teams mainly, and they build you prototypes and then you kind of run with them as much kind of shots on goal as possible. [00:08:57] S2: It's Before kind of they've done that, built few apps on there, but they built something on their end as well. [00:09:04] S3: Yeah, so this was wildly profitable for Bending Spoons and has been and in 2024, the revenue is rumored to have surpassed $500,000,000 And it's also rumored that Bending Spoons is planning to go public soon. So I guess it's the first company kind of in this business model that is actually willing to go public. [00:09:27] S2: My friend here. So Bending Spoons bootstrap, But in September 2022, they raised $340,000,000 from investors. And this round attracted names like Ryan Reynolds or ex Vimeo CEO or a former Google CEO, Eric Schmidt as well. So and some Italian bankers. See Italian Yeah. That [00:09:53] S1: sounds sexy. [00:09:55] S2: You know, then they actually in early twenty twenty four raised additional 155 at valuation 2,500,000,000. So not bad. [00:10:06] S1: What was the date of that last Sorry.