Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:00:00 · Lenny Rachitsky, Brian Balfour
[00:00:00] S0: Everyone's always complaining. SEO is dead. It can't grow. Word-of-mouth is so hard. [00:00:03] S1: All of the ingredients for a new distribution platform are essentially happening. My prediction, the new distribution platform will be ChatGPT. There's a bunch of signals that they're about to launch that. [00:00:14] S0: This is a huge opportunity for companies to get on it. [00:00:16] S1: It ends up being a prisoner's dilemma. Don't trick yourself into thinking that you can't play the game. The cycles seem to be getting shorter and shorter, so you actually have a smaller amount of time. If you don't do it, your competitors are gonna go to the new platform and your customer expectations change. There is no opting out of [00:00:31] S0: the game. This is the opportunity to disrupt an incumbent. [00:00:33] S1: If you're a late stage company, you place multiple bets. For startups, it's a totally different ballgame. You have to choose one and [00:00:39] S0: go all in. Think about companies like Zynga that grew on Facebook and then became massive companies. [00:00:43] S1: Building a great product is one of those things that's necessary but not sufficient. And actually, the separation is between those that build really great distribution. What would be the backup if not ChatGPT? My hypothesis of who's best positioned would actually be.
00:00:59 · Lenny Rachitsky
[00:00:59] S0: Today, my guest is Brian Balfour. Brian is the founder and CEO of Reforge, a company that I've been a longtime fan and advocate of. Historically, Reforge has focused primarily on teaching courses on product and growth. But more recently, they've transitioned to building their own products, including a product called Reforge Insights and a bunch more really cool stuff coming very soon. Prior to Reforge, Brian led growth at HubSpot. And over the course of his career, he has seen the rise and fall of every major distribution channel, including Facebook's ad platform, Google Ads and SEO, and the Apple App Store. Based on what he's seeing, he is predicting the emergence of a brand new and powerful distribution channel that will likely arise in the next six months centered most likely around ChatGPT. It is really rare for a new growth channel to open up. It's been a long time since the last one appeared, and the people who recognize this and hop on it early are the ones that reap the most rewards. So this is a huge deal. In this conversation, Brian shares what he's predicting, what he's seeing, why this is a big deal, and what you should be doing about it right now. I highly recommend you listen to this full conversation and discuss the ramifications with your team. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. Also, if you become an annual subscriber of my newsletter, you get a bunch of incredible products for free for one year, including Lovable, Replit, Bold, n eight n, Linear, Superhuman, Descript, Wispr Flow, Gamma Perplexity, Warp, Granola, Magic Patterns, Raycast, ChatGPT, and Mobbin. Check it out at lenny'snewsletter.com and click product pass. With that, I bring you Brian Balfour. Today's episode is brought to you by DX, the developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers. To thrive in the AI era, organizations need to adapt quickly. But many organization leaders struggle to answer pressing questions like which tools are working? How are they being used? What's actually driving value? DX provides the data and insights that leaders need to navigate this shift. With DX, companies like Dropbox, booking.com, Adyen, and Intercom get a deep understanding of how AI is providing value to their developers and what impact AI is having on engineering productivity.
00:03:13 · Lenny Rachitsky, Brian Balfour
To learn more, visit DX's website at getdx.com/lenny. That's getdx.com/lenny. This episode is brought to you by Basecamp. Basecamp is the famously straightforward project management system from 37 signals. Most project management systems are either inadequate or frustratingly complex, But Basecamp is refreshingly clear. It's simple to get started, easy to organize, and Basecamp's visual tools help you see exactly what everyone is working on and how all work is progressing. Keep all your files and conversations about projects directly connected to the projects themselves so that you always know where stuff is and you're not constantly switching contexts. Running a business is hard. Managing your projects should be easy. I've been a longtime fan of what thirty seven signals has been up to, and I'm really excited to be sharing this with you. Sign up for a free account at basecamp.com/lenny. Get somewhere with Basecamp. Brian, thank you so much for being here, and welcome back [00:04:08] S1: to the podcast. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Excited for this one. I'm really excited to
00:04:08 · Brian Balfour, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:04:08] S1: to the podcast. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Excited for this one. I'm really excited to [00:04:12] S0: have you back. We're just gonna dive right in. Essentially, you've uncovered a a really important trend, or insight about how products are gonna grow differently in the future, how growth is changing. And this is something that I think a lot of people need to hear. So I asked you to come on to share what you're seeing. I also think it was just very timely. I think you said, like, you're gonna say in the next, like, six months, things might significantly change. So I'm really excited to do this. We're gonna spend this whole conversation on this on this insight. To set us up, what is just the big idea? What's the
00:04:44 · Brian Balfour
[00:04:44] S1: high level idea here? Just like you, I've spent my whole career just, like, really passionate about startups, you know, figuring out how to build products that win, that emerge in new markets. And, one of the things that I have, you know, learned over time or one of the things you hear a lot is from a lot of folks is, to win, you have to, like, really build a great product. A lot of the advice kind of boils onto that. And one of the things that I feel like I've banged my head against the wall in a lot of ways in my career is actually telling people that building a great product is one of those things that's necessary, but not sufficient. And actually, the separation is between those that build really great distribution. And so, this general partner, his name's Alex Rampell. He's, at Andreessen Horowitz, actually wrote this blog post ten years ago, back in, like, I think, like, 2015. In the essence of the blog post, he basically says, one thing, which is that startups is a game of trying to get distribution before the incumbent can copy. Right? So it's this kind of concept of escape velocity. And so on that note, which I think is a very good summary of what you're trying to do in a startup in distribution, is that we're right now living in this environment where that game of startups kind of getting distribution faster than the incumbent has gotten way harder in a lot of ways, and in some small cases has gotten a little bit easier. But if we think about this the way that it's gotten harder and some of the things that probably a lot of founders or or folks working on the side that probably feel is that one is that incumbents can copy faster these days. Right? So that window that you have to get that escape velocity has actually shrunk. It's, it's decreased. The second thing is that a lot of the organic distribution that we've had, especially over the past few years, has really shrunk as well. So everybody's talking about the decline of SEO and clicks declining, but you also see it in some other cases. Right? A lot of these social platforms don't really let you send as much traffic to sites. You know, LinkedIn just changed their algorithm, which has really dropped organic distribution. Obviously, the Twitter to X transition that happened. Right? Like TikTok's almost always been like that.
00:06:57 · Brian Balfour
And then the third way that it's gotten harder is that AI is really good at writing software, right, in cogeneration. And so everybody's kind of feeling this infinite increase of competition, especially at the startup level. And YC is pumping up six of the same thing every single cohort. Right? Like, that's what that's what it literally feels like. So it's gotten way harder. This game, this escape velocity game, has gotten a lot harder. It's gotten easier in some very exceptional cases, like a cursor or something where AI has kind of been like the spark. You know? I know you wrote, the blog post about the race car engine, and I think you said, like, there's, like, the spark plug in the engine. Right? And and so AI kind of really created that, a a new type of spark, a new type of interest of early adopters to to to fuel some some new players in a short period of time. Right? And so it's amazing to see something like Cursor overtake market share of something like GitHub Copilot in nine months or less. Right? Like, that... That's how fast it happens. It's kinda crazy. But the main thing that people need to understand is, okay. Well, if that's the game I'm playing, right, how to get to steep velocity before the incumbent? Like, what are all the ways to do that? And and to really figure that out. And there's multiple ways that this can happen, but one of the major ways, one of the major major ways that we always see is that, this can happen when new distribution platforms emerge. And because when new distribution platforms emerge, startups are usually the fastest to take advantage of them. It's slower for the incumbents to move. It gives startups this opportunity essentially to play this game. So Casey Winters wrote this blog post about two years ago, maybe, like, eighteen months ago about, the AI technology shift. And his key point was the AI technology shift has been a technology shift that has not come with a distribution shift yet. So if you look historically, we've had a bunch of technology shifts from Internet, to the cloud, to mobile, to social, like all of these different types of things. And some of them come with distribution... New distribution platforms, new ways to distribute products, and some of them don't. But the most powerful ones, the most impactful ones are the ones that do come with these new distribution platforms.