01:17:42 · John Coogan, Alex Spiro
[01:17:42] S1: Sure. [01:17:43] S2: And I like being around things that I think are super interesting and I'm curious. I like watching the world move forward and a lot of these folks, difficult as they may be, doing things that are exceptional and unique. And sometimes the cases themselves are just important enough that I think they are worthy of a strong and important defense. [01:18:13] S1: Yeah. How how are you meeting new people? Is it all referrals through previous clients? Are there ever... Is there ever a moment where you can see from your perspective that there's going to be a ton of litigation in AI copyright and so you're actually going out of your way to meet folks in that industry beforehand or is it all just comes in when there's a problem? [01:18:37] S2: I'm I'm closed. Okay. I am not looking for I'm not mingling and I'm not looking for nascent industries or industries that I think there's gonna be litigation explosion in. Sure. There are enough companies and people that I'm responsible for shepherding that that I'm not gonna chase people and I don't think... I don't just believe in that as a system. Whether you're a young person looking to market or you're at at you know, been in the career a long time, I just do not believe in that. The top hedge funds don't chase people. The top doctors don't chase people. I certainly don't chase people and yeah. I mean the way that referrals come in is it's word-of-mouth. [01:19:20] S1: Mhmm.
01:19:20 · John Coogan, Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays
[01:19:20] S1: Mhmm. [01:19:20] S2: Where they see you, you know, being a trial lawyer is a public thing. There's people that watched the Alec Baldwin trial or the Eric Adams or the Robert Kraft or the taboocephalousia or I can keep going. And they see you and they think he... You know, hopefully they think they can... That I conduct myself honorably and aggressively and smart. And then they say, okay, I want that guy. [01:19:39] S1: Yeah. How do you... How do the best founders think about lawsuits as a as a tool of business, as an important piece of the puzzle, you as a potential team member as opposed to like headache, something that needs to be just dealt with on the off occasion. It's something that's more in their business repertoire that they are good in this capacity. [01:20:05] S2: Some of them are more adverse to that chaos and the scariness of the war, and some of them can't get enough of it. Mhmm. And what you try to do is modulate the ones that want to sue everybody that walks the earth, and the ones that are afraid that if somebody sends a letter, we've got to shut down the company. [01:20:26] S0: Yeah.
01:20:26 · Jordi Hays, Alex Spiro
[01:20:26] S0: Yeah. [01:20:26] S2: And, you know, I'm using extreme examples, but you get the point that that some people run too risky and some people run not risky enough, and there's a there's a balance. But I mean, you can't be afraid of a fight or everyone's going know you're afraid of a fight. And if you're doing something cutting edge, either competitors that the world is a jealous place Mhmm. Regulators that don't understand what you're doing, short sellers Yeah. Who knows. Right? Know, more money, more problems. So it can... All sorts of things can start happening, and you cannot be afraid. You can't blink. You can't panic, and you got to fight through whatever storms come. [01:21:05] S0: Yeah. Talk about, you know, the sort of transition from what seems like at one point in your career, like pure purely practicing law to now being on the business side, being on boards. Mhmm. Is that something where, you know, it's 5050 now and ten years from now, it could be, you know, ninety ninety ten? Like, what's most interesting about actually being in the arena, at least on the other side of the table?
01:21:05 · Jordi Hays, Alex Spiro
[01:21:05] S0: Yeah. Talk about, you know, the sort of transition from what seems like at one point in your career, like pure purely practicing law to now being on the business side, being on boards. Mhmm. Is that something where, you know, it's 5050 now and ten years from now, it could be, you know, ninety ninety ten? Like, what's most interesting about actually being in the arena, at least on the other side of the table? [01:21:36] S2: The decision to go to hospital made at 21 on a whim. I could have easily ended up, you know, an intern at a bank or something. But but once I started doing it, I realized that the that the importance of it, the thrill of it, the combination of of forces in the arena, I don't think there's gonna be anything like it, and I've yet to find a business way to replace it. That being said, I've been doing it for a very long time, longer than I expected to. It's time for new chapters, and those are starting to begin, and we'll see. I mean, if I look at my legal career in the second or third inning, it would... It was where it was. My business career is not as long as my legal career is. And so it's it's forming on its own timeline and trajectory and it'll it'll take up more of my time as time goes on. And maybe if I'm on your show in ten years nobody even remembers I was a lawyer.
01:21:36 · Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays
[01:21:36] S2: The decision to go to hospital made at 21 on a whim. I could have easily ended up, you know, an intern at a bank or something. But but once I started doing it, I realized that the that the importance of it, the thrill of it, the combination of of forces in the arena, I don't think there's gonna be anything like it, and I've yet to find a business way to replace it. That being said, I've been doing it for a very long time, longer than I expected to. It's time for new chapters, and those are starting to begin, and we'll see. I mean, if I look at my legal career in the second or third inning, it would... It was where it was. My business career is not as long as my legal career is. And so it's it's forming on its own timeline and trajectory and it'll it'll take up more of my time as time goes on. And maybe if I'm on your show in ten years nobody even remembers I was a lawyer. [01:22:31] S0: Do you wish that business was more zero sum? Like I've forgiven given your history like it seems like you enjoy the fact that it's you you get to win and the other person gets to lose and one of the problems in business is that you can win and your competitor, your your your your rival can also be winning. Yeah. Even if it's on a smaller scale.
01:22:54 · Alex Spiro, John Coogan
[01:22:54] S2: Oh, I don't know that I want the other side to always lose so badly, but I I hear your point. There's something about the case that has a star, a a start, a middle, and an end. Sure. And the finality of it, the binary nature totally decrypts me. And I often have said to, you know, the Elons and Jeffs and the great entrepreneurs of our time, I don't have the patience. I don't know that I'd be... I I would have been a great entrepreneur anyway, but I don't know that I would have had the... I know I do not have the patience Mhmm. To have sifted through it for ten, twelve, fifteen years to get to the pinnacle. Yeah. So maybe it it... I I chose this path on purpose. There are business things though that that are exciting that create outside value when you put two pieces together the right way. I've got activist a bunch that is the same sort of muscle memory, and there are cutting edge things that people can do once businesses are ripe. Right? Not at the product and engineering stage, know how to do that, but as as they get riper, that that I think you can take and make magic with and do something that is very unique Mhmm. In the capital markets and in the business world that that strikes me as as awfully similar to the things that I enjoy about my current craft. [01:24:08] S1: Yeah. Talk about a little bit a little bit about the relationship with Tom Brady. How that developed? Where do you see that relationship going over your business career?