02:02:26 · Jordi Hays, Derek Blasberg, John Coogan
[02:02:26] S0: And also, this was a moment when you could really shift culture [02:02:30] S4: Yeah. In magazines. There's there's an iconic portrait in here of a model called Chino Machado Mhmm. Who's an Asian model. Mhmm. And Richard Avedon took her picture Mhmm. Submitted the submitted the the film, and the publisher of Harper's Bazaar called and said reshoot these pictures on a white girl. [02:02:44] S1: Oh, wow. [02:02:45] S4: And his contract was up for renewal and he said, will not renew my contract if you don't run these pictures. [02:02:50] S0: Yeah. And so [02:02:51] S4: this woman became the first non white model in [02:02:53] S0: a nationally syndicated fashion magazine, not because [02:02:56] S4: Yeah. A magazine was suddenly progressive Yeah. It's because this guy was gonna quit. Yeah. He would... They were [02:03:00] S0: blackmailed into doing that. Yeah. He also, you [02:03:04] S4: know, the the Beatles, he shot Bob Dylan, he shot... Yeah. He he was obsessed with with young people with... What [02:03:11] S1: was the crossover there? Like, why why are the Beatles and and Dylan relevant to the golden age of fashion photography? Was this the moment when the musicians were becoming fashion icons? Like, always? [02:03:22] S4: Yeah. Well, sure. Beethoven, you know, he was obviously a... Mozart. Another great costume guy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Another... Think of the wig.... [02:03:32] S0: So hard. [02:03:34] S4: I'll come [02:03:34] S1: back for the [02:03:35] S4: wig for the wig show. [02:03:36] S0: Okay. Okay. [02:03:36] S4: Yeah. Unbelievable. All the...
02:03:36 · Derek Blasberg, Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[02:03:36] S4: Yeah. Unbelievable. All the... [02:03:40] S0: You're good at this. You're good at at this. In another life, you were a technology, you know, live streamer. Or [02:03:48] S4: a New York Post headline writer. [02:03:50] S1: Oh, yeah.... Headline writer. We try and track... Try and channel that every time we can. It's always the best. Puns are so good. [02:03:58] S4: I think in the sixties, like youth quick culture [02:04:00] S1: Okay. [02:04:00] S4: Suddenly all of these influences Yeah. Were smashed together. Yeah. And that's what I think, for me anyway, and the argument that we're making in this magazine Yeah. That was sort of the golden age of [02:04:12] S1: photography. What's coming back right now in terms of fashion photography? Because it doesn't feel like we are in a moment where everyone's ripping off Richard Avedon right now. Maybe that'll happen in a decade, maybe in two years, maybe it already happened. I don't know if there's been a revival movement yet. But what is the trend currently? What what is the trend calling back to currently? Do have an idea? [02:04:35] S4: That's a great question. Yeah. When you think of fashion photography now, you actually think of multiple deliverables. Yeah. So like when Avedon was taking these pictures, he would take 10 shots. Yep. And now, if you're booked for a job Yeah. You're taking 10 pictures, you're taking, you know, a couple cut down reels to put on social, maybe you do a hero video for the YouTube page. [02:04:56] S1: Yeah. It's a lot. [02:04:57] S0: So there's... I don't know if the... You know, so
02:04:57 · Jordi Hays, Derek Blasberg, John Coogan
[02:04:57] S0: So there's... I don't know if the... You know, so [02:05:01] S4: much of Avedon's work with the white background... Do you guys remember when we were young? I think we're... I'm probably a little bit older than you, but we're probably the same generation. Do you remember the the early CK one ads, white background? Yep. [02:05:10] S0: Totally. That was, you know, that was Yeah. [02:05:12] S4: Yeah. Avedon work Injuries. Which Calvin Klein has Yep. Has recycled [02:05:16] S1: That makes sense. [02:05:16] S4: Even after his death. So there's definitely callbacks to his influence. But did you guys see the the Gucci holiday video that broke yesterday? No. It's Mariah Carey. [02:05:28] S1: Okay. [02:05:28] S4: It's Mariah Carey walking into a house party singing like and... [02:05:33] S1: It's Christmas themed? It's... What's... I'm in. Say no more. [02:05:37] S4: I just... [02:05:38] S0: Sounds brutal. [02:05:39] S4: What was the... She has a famous holiday, so the... [02:05:41] S1: Yeah. All I Want for Christmas. There we go. [02:05:43] S0: Yes. That was a test. I just wanted to see if you... [02:05:45] S1: Yeah. It's fifty days. I'm I'm warmed up. And... I've been on the road to Christmas for two months. Okay. [02:05:52] S0: And I think that that is sadly what... Well, sadly because I I... [02:05:56] S1: The Kitsch revival? Camp revival? [02:05:58] S0: I think... Yeah. Maybe? Did you see Matt Damon and David Letterman doing cameos on the Gilded Age Sunday night? No, I didn't.
02:05:58 · Jordi Hays, Derek Blasberg, John Coogan
[02:05:58] S0: I think... Yeah. Maybe? Did you see Matt Damon and David Letterman doing cameos on the Gilded Age Sunday night? No, I didn't. [02:06:05] S4: I think the Easter egg, the Kitsch Okay. Revival the sweet nostalgia, I think we're... [02:06:10] S1: Yeah. That's where we're having fun. [02:06:12] S0: And maybe that is because [02:06:13] S4: the the the world, maybe until last [02:06:17] S0: night anyway, the real world has seemed so scary Sure. That we are searching for [02:06:21] S1: our... Release. [02:06:21] S0: Are there any new ideas in fashion? Because it's funny because I saw there was a there was a founder of a of a... Leave this very general, apparel brand. [02:06:32] S4: Mhmm. [02:06:32] S0: They were just completely crashing out writing this super long... All these all these were all these words complaining that like people were copying their photography style. [02:06:45] S4: Thought it was funny... The designer was complaining about the photography? [02:06:48] S0: Yeah, yeah. Just like the presentation of the Founder [02:06:50] S1: one brand is saying founder of other brand is making their website photos look like my website photos. [02:06:55] S0: Yeah, yeah. Our our brand, you know, basically just mimicking. But the photos are... Well, thought it was interesting because like they clearly had just found like from the archives like a specific style that had been done by someone else. They were the first to adopt it. [02:07:09] S4: So the complainer was already mimicking.
02:07:09 · Derek Blasberg, Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[02:07:09] S4: So the complainer was already mimicking. [02:07:11] S0: Yeah. Because somebody brand new. It like, wow. This idea of like being... If I was first to it, then I own it. I... Yeah. [02:07:20] S4: Like, which which I [02:07:20] S0: don't necessarily agree with. Like Mhmm. We've had plenty of people take inspiration from TBPN and I'm always kind of, you know, however... [02:07:28] S4: You should write them [02:07:28] S0: a long email. Yeah. Well, done that because we didn't invent television. Yeah. Exactly. As much as I would have liked to invent television, we didn't. Yeah. A handful of people got there first. [02:07:38] S4: Yeah. Isn't that sort of the problem with AI though, is that it's it's written entirely in existing stuff? [02:07:44] S0: Yeah. But I feel like all new ideas are based entirely on remake, like [02:07:48] S1: Yeah. [02:07:48] S0: When when... Have we had a new idea in like the last eighty years? [02:07:51] S4: Work it out in the remix. That's what you should tell your friend who was complaining about... [02:07:55] S1: Work it out in the remix. Yeah. What what do think? No. [02:07:58] S0: But but that's the thing, like AI is just drawing from all these different inspirations. [02:08:03] S4: That exist. [02:08:03] S0: That exist. That's also exactly how like all the most creative people I know generate new things. [02:08:12] S4: Yeah. They're just [02:08:13] S1: like Take inspiration. [02:08:14] S0: Pulling from the archive, pulling from something that's [02:08:15] S4: that's not specific to fashion or photography. Think we see
02:08:15 · Derek Blasberg, Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Anish Agarwal
[02:08:15] S4: that's not specific to fashion or photography. Think we see [02:08:18] S0: Yeah. [02:08:18] S4: Know, anytime you see a new film, there's always a... Oh, they nicked this sequence off of... [02:08:23] S1: Yeah. Yeah. You you mentioned Richard Avedon had a contract that was up, and that was a a one to one relationship effectively. He he he was only working for Harper's. Is that right? [02:08:34] S4: And this was also a time when you could afford to keep photographers on This [02:08:38] S1: is changing. So I saw someone talk about how I think it was New York Magazine and a other publications... [02:08:46] S4: Interview Magazine, They [02:08:48] S1: hired the same photographer and the cover photos looked identical because it was the same photographer because the photographer needs to work for multiple publications. [02:08:56] S0: Yeah. [02:08:56] S1: And so it's harder for Elle to have their look and and New York Magazine to have their look or whatever the examples [02:09:03] S6: were. [02:09:03] S4: That's a little new that that photographer doesn't have an agent. [02:09:06] S1: Okay. Oh, oh, because they would have sold an exclusive for this period. [02:09:09] S4: Think an agent or something. I don't know. I don't... So that story was everywhere. [02:09:13] S0: Okay. Especially in my little... Better, so tell...