01:01:19 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[01:01:19] S1: You've gotten 60 legs, and they've got 60 legs. [01:01:22] S0: Yeah. Do you ever regret it? Yeah. When the things got really tough. Right? We almost got run out of money during COVID, and, you know, we we were very close to getting a term sheet from SoftBank before COVID happened, and then the WeWork stuff blowed up. And all of a sudden, the term sheet's gone. Gone. Pulled it. Yeah. Well, they didn't pull it. I mean, we haven't signed it yet, but we we kind of almost, getting the term sheet to sign. Right? And then they just disappeared after the WeWork stuff. And we're running out of money, then COVID happened. So we had to do a, you know, a convertible... You know, we had to do a convertible from the existing. Then we... Lucky we found an investor out of London called Hidosofia to kinda basically lead a lead a round at one point... I think 1.7, 1,800,000,000. What's... You know, like, without that round, we would have been running out of money again. Yeah. And that COVID happened, and we lost half our revenue in a day. [01:02:28] S1: And at that point, you're like, what? How did I not sell? [01:02:33] S0: You you had that moment, but it's not like a burden, if you know what I mean. It's just like, oh, fuck. You know? It's, you know, one of those things, you know, it's like... Yeah. Why why do I have to choose this path that's so hard? [01:02:46] S1: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine, like, you know, probably the reality of the head of APAC job settled in, you're like, come on. Do I really wanna do that job? [01:03:01] S0: Yeah. I think if I live
01:03:01 · Jack Zhang, Joubin Mirzadegan
[01:03:01] S0: Yeah. I think if I live [01:03:02] S1: in The US, I'll probably have done that. Done the acquisition? [01:03:06] S0: Yeah. Why? I think just everything is... Money is a lot more important in The US. And it's just a lot more... The society is a lot more kind of capital driven. [01:03:20] S1: Right? Then [01:03:22] S0: wealth means a lot in in in The States. Where in Melbourne, like, it doesn't matter you're a billionaire or you, like, work in an investment bank making 200 k a year, it's kind of the same. You You go to the same supermarket, everything's cheap. Know, twenty years ago, the best house cost $56,000,000. It's... Everything's cheap. You don't need a lot of money. And I already have money at that time because I started many businesses from real estate and everything so that, you know, I can afford to buy the best houses and living the best life in Melbourne. And that kind of played a big part of it [01:04:00] S1: as well. Oh, you had a decent amount of money from the coffee shop and the burger stand? [01:04:05] S0: Mainly real estate, real estate development and architecturing. [01:04:08] S1: Okay. So you did some other side projects in addition to the coffee shop and the burger stand. [01:04:13] S0: Yeah. I made, more than $10,000,000 before I started Airwalks. Woah. So you had a cushion. Not a lot, but you know, good enough in Melbourne. [01:04:23] S1: Enough where you weren't like starving. You weren't like a starving entrepreneur. No. Why didn't you move to The US? Why haven't you lived here?
01:04:23 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[01:04:23] S1: Enough where you weren't like starving. You weren't like a starving entrepreneur. No. Why didn't you move to The US? Why haven't you lived here? [01:04:33] S0: I don't know. I mean, it's just that... I mean, I I moved to here. I moved to New York when I was in... During COVID. Right? Because Melbourne had the longest lockdown in the world that they... We had a fifteen months lockdown. That was crazy. You can only do three things in a day. You can do caregiving. You can do exercise within an hour, within five kilometers of your radius of where you live. I think the last one was caregiving, exercise. The other one is, like, shopping. You can buy stuff. [01:05:02] S1: Like grocery stuff. [01:05:03] S0: Only do... Yeah. You can only do one hour a day within five radiance... Five kilometer radiance of your house. And fifteen months, I was going nuts. And then if you wanna leave the country, you have to apply. And I applied five times, and the six times approved to me, and I get on the first [01:05:21] S1: No. You know? [01:05:21] S0: Yeah. I have to... Yeah. I literally fly out of the country, and, yeah, and so that that that is like... You know, but, like, you know, I also, you know, remember all my friends in Melbourne, all my, you know, connections and family, know, it's it's it's not that simple that just like, hey, I'm gonna just move to The US. [01:05:43] S1: You keep up with the Stripe guys now? Nope. Now you're competing. Yeah. Now you're officially competing. [01:05:51] S0: Yeah. I mean, we have a, we have a payments product and that launched in 2021.
01:05:51 · Jack Zhang, Joubin Mirzadegan
[01:05:51] S0: Yeah. I mean, we have a, we have a payments product and that launched in 2021. [01:05:57] S1: You're competing with Ramp. [01:05:58] S0: Yeah. And that, you know, payments is 40% of our revenue. Right? And of course [01:06:03] S1: You have some serious, I mean, man, these are big market, but these are not fun competitors. Ramp and Stripe are seriously good companies. [01:06:13] S0: Yeah. But we're also competing with Citibank and HSBC, which make our life a bit easier. That's true. [01:06:19] S1: That's true. I was like, I was laughing when I saw one of the ramp investors just start going crazy on you about basically being like a Chinese spy. Yeah. Basically. Right? He's like basically calling you a Chinese spy. Yeah. That was insane. From 15 years old. That was insane. Yeah. What are like... Do what random stuff you have to deal with? Then you have
01:06:19 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Jack Zhang
[01:06:19] S1: That's true. I was like, I was laughing when I saw one of the ramp investors just start going crazy on you about basically being like a Chinese spy. Yeah. Basically. Right? He's like basically calling you a Chinese spy. Yeah. That was insane. From 15 years old. That was insane. Yeah. What are like... Do what random stuff you have to deal with? Then you have [01:06:49] S0: to respond. Right? Yeah. But you have to. Right? Because we have a lot of large platforms doing payroll and doing, you know, defense payment and, you know, like it's kind of funny that just like it's quite eye opening for me what competition takes nowadays. It's, you know, I mean, I'd rather, you know, I'm an engineer, right? I'd rather people just competing based on the product, based on the experience they give to their customer. Launching in The US is quite eye opening for me, and I'm not really sure this is something new, but I never need to deal with it in the past, this is pretty mind blowing what people do to compete. You must have gotten such annoying calls from customers and partners. It's fine. I mean, we we we did an audit and, you know, we we were to demonstrating everything, so, you know, we... People fact check everything, so The US business is still doing extremely well. So we we fine. I mean, just that... Actually, if it's anything, investor care about it more than customers. Investors. Yeah. I mean, you know how Silicon Valley works. Right? There's a lot of chatters and a lot of perceptions and, you know, like, it's it's kind
01:06:49 · Jack Zhang, Joubin Mirzadegan
[01:06:49] S0: to respond. Right? Yeah. But you have to. Right? Because we have a lot of large platforms doing payroll and doing, you know, defense payment and, you know, like it's kind of funny that just like it's quite eye opening for me what competition takes nowadays. It's, you know, I mean, I'd rather, you know, I'm an engineer, right? I'd rather people just competing based on the product, based on the experience they give to their customer. Launching in The US is quite eye opening for me, and I'm not really sure this is something new, but I never need to deal with it in the past, this is pretty mind blowing what people do to compete. You must have gotten such annoying calls from customers and partners. It's fine. I mean, we we we did an audit and, you know, we we were to demonstrating everything, so, you know, we... People fact check everything, so The US business is still doing extremely well. So we we fine. I mean, just that... Actually, if it's anything, investor care about it more than customers. Investors. Yeah. I mean, you know how Silicon Valley works. Right? There's a lot of chatters and a lot of perceptions and, you know, like, it's it's kind [01:07:59] S1: of interesting. Is is most of your cap table Silicon Valley investors? Majority of it. Yeah. [01:08:06] S0: That's... We we do have Sequoia China as early investor. Yeah. But, know, the last time they invested was, like, seven, eight years ago. [01:08:13] S1: Yeah. Yeah.