Relentless
00:59:57 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:59:57] S0: Absorb people's time but [00:59:59] S1: not And I loved it. I loved TikTok. Really thought it was great. And then I thought I could, like, control it. I was like, oh, you know, it's actually kind of fun, but I only use it for, like, ten minutes to wind down before bed, and I'm, like, totally in control of it. And then it was, like, an hour one night. And then some Saturday afternoon, I was, like, how should I... Three hours. And I was, this is, like, really not what I thought the iPhone was supposed to be about. Now, I'm really enjoying it at the moment like a drug, but I can tell it's bad for me. And then I, like, briefly got it back under control and I was down to, like, five, ten minutes a night, whatever. You know? Like, little wind down before bed, then I was just like, enough. I think the iPhone is amazing, and yet I did not feel like I had enough self control to keep that app or I did not feel like the notifications on messaging apps were like a net good thing for me. And I'm sure we will make an incredible, beautiful, like really helpful, empowering set of devices. I'm And also sure that people will misuse them, and it'll make people's lives worse in ways we can't imagine, and we'll adapt. But this is a thing about powerful technology. [01:01:03] S0: You're inventing a new device. What is that process of exploration through the problem space? Like, you're Johnny.
01:01:03 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[01:01:03] S0: You're inventing a new device. What is that process of exploration through the problem space? Like, you're Johnny. [01:01:10] S1: I don't answer on his behalf. But he he has, like, talked about this before somewhat, but it's, like, his process. You know, when he's doing the car, he will, like, go study all the history of motorsport and then, like, the different typefaces that people use for the text in the cabin of a car and the materials and why and, like, the different sounds that engines have made over time and why some have appealed. I mean, he'll write literal books of all of his explorations, of all of these, like, unbelievably detailed small components. [01:01:39] S0: Did you guys basically take those books and, like, try to, like, use them as training data to make, like, a Johnny model? [01:01:45] S1: No. But that would be a great thing to try. There there there is definitely a part of his process that I don't understand. Like, I understand the studying. I understand the refinement of a very new concept into something great. But there is, like, a middle step, the inspiration that comes from understanding the problem really well to the, like, very novel idea kinda that seems to me to happen all at once, and I don't understand that. [01:02:09] S0: When you're thinking about designing something, what goes through your mind? [01:02:13] S1: I'm not a designer anyway. I would I would not... I I try to be, like, pretty good about realizing what I'm not good at, and I I wouldn't try to have a strong opinion there. What are you the worst at
01:02:13 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[01:02:13] S1: I'm not a designer anyway. I would I would not... I I try to be, like, pretty good about realizing what I'm not good at, and I I wouldn't try to have a strong opinion there. What are you the worst at [01:02:25] S0: on the business building side? [01:02:27] S1: Maybe product. Really. Maybe. Okay. [01:02:31] S0: How do you find great product people if you're bad at product? [01:02:35] S1: This is a thing that I've never quite agreed with people on. There's like there's like a there's like a business meme that you can only hire people and things that you deeply understand. I think it... You know if they're great. I think this is just clearly not true. I don't understand design either. I know Johnny's great at design. Like, there's lots of things I can point to when you talk to him for thirty minutes. It's very obvious. [01:02:53] S0: Which things do you try to actively get better at? And then which things do you just try to outsource and understand that you're just never gonna be one of the best? [01:03:00] S1: I am a big believer in you should try to get better at your strengths and the whole, like, obsession with I'm gonna get better at the things that I'm just not good at at all and never gonna be good at. Huge trump. Super good at your strengths. [01:03:11] S0: Okay. What are your biggest strengths if you had to, like, force rank? [01:03:15] S1: I hate this question. I don't hate this from a false modesty perspective. I think it's very hard to say anything insightful about your own strengths.
01:03:15 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[01:03:15] S1: I hate this question. I don't hate this from a false modesty perspective. I think it's very hard to say anything insightful about your own strengths. [01:03:22] S0: You're clearly good at really rallying people around some objective. [01:03:26] S1: Sure. But I don't think I could teach someone who isn't good at that how to be good at that. I think the things that come supernaturally to someone are very hard to... I don't know. Or at least in my own case, I don't, like, deeply understand why I'm good at that or what to do about it. Although I think we talked about earlier this category of things that you can learn but you can't teach. [01:03:48] S0: I [01:03:49] S1: think this is quite important to understand. If you want to get good at something like that, asking someone to explain it to you, in my experience, never works. Really studying them and like sitting with them in meetings and just trying to observe it and learn it yourself, that does work. But and like when there has been something that I do want to get better at, I have tried to just be around someone who's great at it and really deeply study it. But I don't think they would have been able to explain it to me. Don't think they could have, like, taught it to me by talking to me
01:03:49 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[01:03:49] S1: think this is quite important to understand. If you want to get good at something like that, asking someone to explain it to you, in my experience, never works. Really studying them and like sitting with them in meetings and just trying to observe it and learn it yourself, that does work. But and like when there has been something that I do want to get better at, I have tried to just be around someone who's great at it and really deeply study it. But I don't think they would have been able to explain it to me. Don't think they could have, like, taught it to me by talking to me [01:04:19] S0: about it. I think that's totally right if you look at, like, the way that the best people in the world learn video games. If you're playing, like, CS:GO. You, like, play some CS:GO so you have, like, the basic game dynamics, and then you just go watch a pro and, like, see how they interact on the map 100%. At different points in the game and stuff. When you think about, like, organization pace, you know, there's, like, ambition, all these other things. But, like, you ideally, over time, want your organization... You obviously don't want it to slow down, but, ideally, it even moves faster. How do you, like, bake that in? I think it's,
01:04:19 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[01:04:19] S0: about it. I think that's totally right if you look at, like, the way that the best people in the world learn video games. If you're playing, like, CS:GO. You, like, play some CS:GO so you have, like, the basic game dynamics, and then you just go watch a pro and, like, see how they interact on the map 100%. At different points in the game and stuff. When you think about, like, organization pace, you know, there's, like, ambition, all these other things. But, like, you ideally, over time, want your organization... You obviously don't want it to slow down, but, ideally, it even moves faster. How do you, like, bake that in? I think it's, [01:04:49] S1: like, 90% of people you put in leadership roles. Okay. There's, like, other things you can do. People have all these different sort of operating rhythms and how they try to run the company and this management technique in that one, and I think it's... I think it mostly just comes down to the people. Definitely something I think about with everybody in a role like that is, like, are they a fast mover or a slow mover? [01:05:07] S0: Do you measure that without actually having worked with them in the past? [01:05:11] S1: Well, ideally, you have worked with them in the past. I I think most of the time, executives at a company should be promoted internally, not hired externally. [01:05:19] S0: Okay. [01:05:21] S1: But when you do need to hire someone externally, you spend a lot of time talking to them, spend a lot of time reference checking, you try to work together in some kind