Relentless
00:56:25 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:56:25] S1: super successful. It was just, like, it was more important to put the compute and the energy into coding agents. [00:56:31] S0: Take me into one of those meetings. Like, imagine you're in that meeting, I guess, maybe you were in that meeting, where you were saying, we've spent a year plus on this thing, huge amounts of money, huge amounts of compute, lots of people and resources, a lot of momentum into it. People use it. They love it. And then you decide we're gonna pull the plug. Like, how do you make that call? [00:56:51] S1: Yeah. It's not like a... It's not it's not a one meeting thing. It's like a... I think it's a real... It's like a somewhat gradual realization that there is a more important use of this compute, these people, you know, this product direction, and we're gonna make a very painful decision to get there. [00:57:11] S0: How do you realign people once you do have to, like, kinda kill their baby to move [00:57:16] S1: them to another baby? People kinda understand the mission and the stakes and the need to reorient to get there. So even if they're, like, unhappy in the moment, Sometimes they're very happy. Sometimes they're like, yeah. This is the right thing for the mission. But even if they're unhappy in the moment, they're like, I get why we're doing this, and the kind of continuing refocus towards superintelligence is, like, a good thing. Do you [00:57:38] S0: think that there's gonna be projects currently that [00:57:40] S1: are gonna get killed? I assume so. In order to pursue.
00:57:40 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:57:40] S1: are gonna get killed? I assume so. In order to pursue. [00:57:43] S0: Yeah. There's this amazing line from John Collison where he said, basically, everything in the world, if you just look around, it's, like, so difficult to make things happen, even, like, getting [00:57:53] S1: So difficult. [00:57:54] S0: Park bench built. It's incredibly difficult. And so when you look around, you can kind of think of the world as, like, a universe of passion projects. And I think that if you are in, like, Steve Jobs's position where you're gonna, like, create something where a billion people might interact with it every single day for, like, hours, you have to, like, think deeply about how do I, like, design something that people are going to love and ideally not be unhappy about. How do you think about design?
00:57:54 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:57:54] S0: Park bench built. It's incredibly difficult. And so when you look around, you can kind of think of the world as, like, a universe of passion projects. And I think that if you are in, like, Steve Jobs's position where you're gonna, like, create something where a billion people might interact with it every single day for, like, hours, you have to, like, think deeply about how do I, like, design something that people are going to love and ideally not be unhappy about. How do you think about design? [00:58:24] S1: I feel super lucky to get to work with Jony Ive on designing beautiful things. Mhmm. And I have learned so much from him about how he really studies a problem before trying to get to the solution and not not even letting him think too much about the solution until he really designs... Really understands the problem. And I think this is a key that I didn't appreciate before. Like, really great design is way more about understanding the problem than the flash of insight. And if you try to rush towards the thing or lock yourself too much into the thing, you will not do as good of a job. I think the iPhone is the greatest piece of technology humanity has collectively yet made. It is an incredible thing. But I don't, like, love my relationship with it anymore. I turned off my notifications, so I actually like it much better now. [00:59:16] S0: Yeah. I keep myself on do not disturb.
00:59:16 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:59:16] S0: Yeah. I keep myself on do not disturb. [00:59:18] S1: That wasn't even enough. I just, like, I turned off notifications for everything except a very small number of things. And I never have them on because I just... You know, I can, like, look at it if I wanna look [00:59:28] S0: at it. [00:59:28] S1: Even messages apps? Even messages apps. That was, like, a big life upgrade, and I deleted TikTok because it was just, like, too powerful. You were addicted to TikTok? I, so here's a crazy thing that happened. When we were building the Sora app, I made myself get addicted to TikTok because I wanted to just, like, learn. I was like, you know, I had never really used it before. I mean, had, like... People would send me a TikTok or whatever, but I never got sucked into it. And I was like, I really don't want to build something that is gonna have that kind of thing. [00:59:57] S0: Absorb people's time but
00:59:57 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:59:57] S0: Absorb people's time but [00:59:59] S1: not And I loved it. I loved TikTok. Really thought it was great. And then I thought I could, like, control it. I was like, oh, you know, it's actually kind of fun, but I only use it for, like, ten minutes to wind down before bed, and I'm, like, totally in control of it. And then it was, like, an hour one night. And then some Saturday afternoon, I was, like, how should I... Three hours. And I was, this is, like, really not what I thought the iPhone was supposed to be about. Now, I'm really enjoying it at the moment like a drug, but I can tell it's bad for me. And then I, like, briefly got it back under control and I was down to, like, five, ten minutes a night, whatever. You know? Like, little wind down before bed, then I was just like, enough. I think the iPhone is amazing, and yet I did not feel like I had enough self control to keep that app or I did not feel like the notifications on messaging apps were like a net good thing for me. And I'm sure we will make an incredible, beautiful, like really helpful, empowering set of devices. I'm And also sure that people will misuse them, and it'll make people's lives worse in ways we can't imagine, and we'll adapt. But this is a thing about powerful technology. [01:01:03] S0: You're inventing a new device. What is that process of exploration through the problem space? Like, you're Johnny.
01:01:03 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[01:01:03] S0: You're inventing a new device. What is that process of exploration through the problem space? Like, you're Johnny. [01:01:10] S1: I don't answer on his behalf. But he he has, like, talked about this before somewhat, but it's, like, his process. You know, when he's doing the car, he will, like, go study all the history of motorsport and then, like, the different typefaces that people use for the text in the cabin of a car and the materials and why and, like, the different sounds that engines have made over time and why some have appealed. I mean, he'll write literal books of all of his explorations, of all of these, like, unbelievably detailed small components. [01:01:39] S0: Did you guys basically take those books and, like, try to, like, use them as training data to make, like, a Johnny model? [01:01:45] S1: No. But that would be a great thing to try. There there there is definitely a part of his process that I don't understand. Like, I understand the studying. I understand the refinement of a very new concept into something great. But there is, like, a middle step, the inspiration that comes from understanding the problem really well to the, like, very novel idea kinda that seems to me to happen all at once, and I don't understand that. [01:02:09] S0: When you're thinking about designing something, what goes through your mind? [01:02:13] S1: I'm not a designer anyway. I would I would not... I I try to be, like, pretty good about realizing what I'm not good at, and I I wouldn't try to have a strong opinion there. What are you the worst at