Going Direct Conversations
00:53:06 · Ben O’Hanlon
Sun Tzu. I'm probably saying it wrong. No, me too. But they want to deprive the USA of, they're fully aware of the monetary system being captured. They're fully aware of how that was used to wage war. And by the way, very clever, whoever thought of that. So I think states are incentivized to give decentralized options because what they're trying to do is remove a resource or... That power from their adversary. And so we've got the enemy of your enemy, right? So now we've got these. And by the way, here's an interesting point I hadn't thought of, but I read yesterday. Open models don't mean privacy. Open models don't mean providence. So you and I could be using open models, but it might send a signal. It might be reporting back information in ways that we can't see, right? So it's incredible to think about. How could we have open models that have provenance, that offer people sovereignty? And why do we want to do this? Because we want to offer the sovereign individual, going back to sort of the Murray-Wapp, Web3 principles, we want to offer the sovereign individual freedom We want them to maximize their freedom of action because the strength of the swarm is that they can self-determine and self-organize. And so we don't have to direct them. But the reason that I think Web3 has failed to a large extent so far is because you get into these politics, these fiefdoms, and it's a natural part of humanity. What is it? The Dunn, what's he called? Cronenberg. I can't remember. Humanist tendency to have 150 people they could know. Dunbar. Thank you. Dunbar number. Yeah, exactly. So that's how I think I see it. I think you said something earlier where it's like the legacy world is decaying. It's such a different world, by the way. When you and me grew up, I'd come and knock on your door and ask if you'd come out. Everyone geographically around us was connected. And then with the internet, everyone became far more niche, narrower interests, like octopus Japanese movies or whatever, right? Just weird stuff, but people could niche into whatever they wanted. But there's the pendulum of that, the trade-off is that they become more disconnected to those that are around them. Sure. But I think we're becoming more hyper-connected as well, you know? And so I think it's just a really interesting time to be alive.
00:55:35 · Ben O’Hanlon, Jordan Wolfe
I think you could easily get lost in kind of demonism and We're totally fucked. Until you realize that actually all of this is about belief and what people think the power is and everything's really your internal state. And, you know, if you can correct that, if you can look at it and realize, like, I am an actor and I am doing all of this for fun and this is a wonderful experiment and we're in this counter revolution and, like, you know, so you can get yourself quite, like, actually, this is hyped. [00:56:07] S1: Yeah. [00:56:10] S2: Two people, you know, I see people that are very threatened by AI and I see people that are massively energized by it, you know? [00:56:21] S1: Yeah, totally, totally. Well, listen, man, I think it's a good way to wrap up for a little rapid fire and then we'll close it out. You ready? Yeah. Does AI ultimately centralize or decentralize power? [00:56:32] S2: I think it decentralizes it because... It's within its notice to want to be distributed and to spread out as far as it can. So like life itself, I think it's going to want to kind of, I haven't got the word on the edge of my tongue, but yeah, I think it wants to survive. So it will want to spread out as far as it can. [00:56:53] S1: One open source AI project you'd bet on, or you're betting on? [00:56:57] S2: Oh, I'm such a fanboy for news research and homies, and I'm building a harness with it. So yeah, I really love that community. [00:57:04] S1: Cool. Finish this sentence. Ordinary people will own their intelligence when?
00:57:04 · Jordan Wolfe, Ben O’Hanlon
[00:57:04] S1: Cool. Finish this sentence. Ordinary people will own their intelligence when? [00:57:09] S2: They take responsibility for the outcomes in their life. Sorry, that's a [00:57:17] S1: bit hard. It's the truth. I like it. Who else should I have a conversation with? They're Going Direct. [00:57:23] S2: You know who's really smart is Mauricio, who I worked with in IO. He's like a... He's got such a good finance, banking, like explains like a lot of the concepts to me that I find a beneficial, you know? So yeah, Mauricio is a good guy. And if you want to know about communication and narratives, Tim Harrison is the VP I used to work for, and he's been a huge mentor to me. So either of those guys, if you want narratives and language, then Tim Harrison. And if you want kind of more of the stable coin in finance, then Mauricio. [00:57:59] S1: Cool. How can people reach you, Ben? [00:58:03] S2: My DMs are open, bro. I'm at Ben O'Hanlon, B-N-O-H-A-N-L-O-N, on LinkedIn, on Telegram. I'm on X. I'm on Substack, the ecosystem operator Substack. And I'm obviously super chatty to a fault. So... [00:58:20] S1: So yeah, hit me up. Thanks, man. And we'll include that in the show links. And yeah, we'll be watching out for the last two essays of the series. So when you do that, maybe we'll hop back on and do a recap.
00:58:20 · Jordan Wolfe, Ben O’Hanlon
[00:58:20] S1: So yeah, hit me up. Thanks, man. And we'll include that in the show links. And yeah, we'll be watching out for the last two essays of the series. So when you do that, maybe we'll hop back on and do a recap. [00:58:35] S2: It's been cathartic for me because it's like just getting to articulate a bunch of stuff that people wouldn't, normies wouldn't have the time to listen to. So yeah, like if I just, if I was just on, um, If I was just a runaway steam train and we didn't kind of get to the point tomorrow, I'm sorry about that. [00:58:55] S1: It's the best part about it, man. It's always a fun way to meet someone. You know, one of the most fun parts of this for me is I just love coming across people's work I would never come across. And especially coming from it from a little bit different angles, that's what's really fun for me and people that are well-read and thinking about this a lot. And I don't know, I just... I don't know, I'm, I'm, I guess what I would say, I come at it a little bit, I think less like mercenary in general, like around it, like, but I feel whole, like I'm, I'm someone who's like, yeah, you got to figure out how to play the game with the system. [00:59:33] S2: Yeah.
00:59:33 · Ben O’Hanlon, Jordan Wolfe
[00:59:33] S2: Yeah. [00:59:33] S1: Right. And now you can create, you need to create, we need to create new systems. We got to figure out how to play the game with the system to make it all work. Yeah. And, I don't know, I think the thing that hit the most for me was, and I see it with my friends, I even see it with other people very close to me, they're just not even understanding what's happening. Yes. Do you not understand what has been happening? And especially folks that have the traditional nine to five. And I'm like, man, you're selling your time. You don't understand every year. So listen, every year your money's buying 3% less. Then you put your money with some money. Money manager guy or whatever, who's then, you know, who you think you're getting five, six percent net of their fees, but you're actually like making less than the savings rate. And it's just like, and it's like, and that's why you can't afford it. And everything else is getting inflated. You can't afford health care and education and housing. And it's like, it's only just going to get worse. And I'm trying to like wake people up and be like, you got to understand, like you're sleepwalking into this thing and like give it another decade. And it's just, it's going to be untenable.
01:00:37 · Ben O’Hanlon
[01:00:37] S2: Their ability to, I don't know if you've had this experience, but their ability to focus on anything, I just find it fascinating. Like I've had, I've tried talking to people and eyes glaze over and they're just like, oh, this is over my head. This is over my head is something I've heard so many times. And it's like, this is the idea of sovereignty. It's like, bro, oh, I wish I could find you the quote, but it's like, bro, You're in this game whether you like it or not. This is a matter of survival, right? And you're generally like the supply chain and if there's two to three days food in the stores, I know you've got to go, but there's two to three days food in Walmart or whatever, right? And it's like, you guys are so dependent on the system and you're just walking into it blind, willfully, willfully walking into this. And it's like, People need to get shook, right? And start to, yeah, but that's you.