Founders in Arms
00:34:57 · Jack Zhang, Immad Akhund
[00:34:57] S0: '20... End of twenty eighteen, early twenty nineteen. [00:34:59] S1: Okay. So this is only like three or four years into the journey. Yeah. Obviously, it would have been like a, you know, a life changing amount of money. Like, what's... You know, what made you say no? Like, why not just say, like, yeah, you know, this is a good three years, four years. I get a massive exit. I can kinda, you know, don't have to deal with Keith Rubois' tweets from now on.
00:35:21 · Jack Zhang
[00:35:21] S0: Yeah. I think there's definitely a bit of a naiveness of the founder, only three years in a journey that, you know, we... Once... You know, the company's volume growing from, you know, like a million, you know, to to a a few billion dollars. Right? So that... It's like a phenomenal growth. And I'm very early in the journey, and the the kind of ultimate thing I think about is, like, it's a five year lockup. I will be, like, 39, you know, by the time the lockup finish. And do I have the the the grit? Do I have the energy and passion to do another start up that can creating a massive business? Probably not. I mean, like, it's it's it's kind of like if you look at fintech, it's... You know, I was... It's very hard to start early early stage fintech anymore. Right? Because, you know, you guys started... You know, you guys Revolut, us, you know, Brax and... You know, we all almost started in that same period. There's, like, a window of opportunity to get raising venture capital money to kind of... There's a gap in the market because the the the banking industry, it's... Need need revolution or or innovation. I think they're just a very unique opportunity that you can keep building a compounding business, not only for the next decade, but but even for the next thirty, forty years. Right? In a very, very large market, you know, all these businesses that today, you know, like a Revolut or or or you guys or us can keep compounding for the for the next, you know, ten, twenty, thirty years. Right? So it's very hard to find a... To kinda fund a company like this. And I just can't imagine I can do it again. So I'd rather it's to see it through. Right? So you only leave your thirties once. And, you know, what if that you can build a massive business and all you actually don't enjoy the the post acquisition life and then you regret it? Right? What are you gonna do? So just like Yeah.
00:37:16 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:37:16] S1: It's very hard to capture, like like, lightning in a bottle. I mean, like, you know, what you just said, Jack, is probably, like, pretty irrational to a lot of people because, like, you weren't like, oh, yeah. I could retire and, like, stay on... Be on a beach or, like, enjoy family life. You were just like, oh, man. I'd have to make another business, and that would be annoying. So it is [00:37:35] S0: fear of missing out. Right? It's a fear of not living the most of your life. Yeah. And, you know, ultimately, it's not about money. I I live in Melbourne, and the the the the expense level is, like, 10% of San Francisco today. And, you know, everything in The US become, like, so expensive, and and the the life is pretty good. Alright? So I think I made a decent amount of money when I'm 30, and I'm not, like, desperate in in making money either. And end of the day, this is not a financial decision. Like, if I sold a company today, I'm worth a lot more than than what I'm now. Right? I'm probably worth 2 to $3,000,000,000 if I'm holding the Stripe stock. Now, like, you know, I'm I'm still doing quite well, but but, you know, ultimately, it's not about money. It's it's it's it's about fear of of not living the most and not able to live your life. [00:38:29] S1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:29 · Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri, Jack Zhang
[00:38:29] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:30] S2: Yeah. I think founders... I mean, I think a lot of founders don't make financial decisions when they sell. Like, I think they more making decisions like, do I want to keep working on this? And, like, you know, like, am I really excited about working on this? Right? Like, I don't know. That's my my view. Emma, would you agree with that? Like, they're like, do I actually [00:38:47] S1: wanna keep working [00:38:48] S2: on this? [00:38:48] S1: Yeah. I think there is, like, a level of irrationality to building a big company because there's, you know, when you get to a certain size, you always have the option to exit. [00:38:58] S0: Mhmm. [00:38:58] S1: And like to keep going, I mean, yeah, it's... I agree with Jack that like, you know, you wanna have the biggest impact, but like, I don't know. It's not, like, fun every day. Right? You're waking up and, like, you gotta deal with, like, your your SF morning meeting and your, like, Australia evening meeting. Like, you know, you're working, like, a lot. You're doing the 20 hiring things. Like, it's a it's a lot. So there's, like, definitely a level of, like, irrationality. I always think about it personally for me. It's like, you know, it's very similar to Jack's thinking. It's like, I have one life. Like, you know, I wanna have the biggest impact possible and help the most people possible. [00:39:34] S0: And also, like, a lot of founder are weird in a way that they're just very good at enduring pain. And, like, you know, to [00:39:40] S1: a of
00:39:40 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:39:40] S1: a of [00:39:41] S0: people, this is, insane of, like, have so much pain in life, like, have to deal with so many difficult problems. But it's almost like every problem is an opportunity to just become better. And you get a lot of dopamine, but just like solving problems, and the the more difficult problem you solve, the more happier you are, the better that you... The more you feel you're alive. [00:40:04] S1: I mean, it's it's even more extreme than that. Like, I think to some extent, you kind of end up chasing the pain. Like, Yeah. Absolutely. You know, if it if it gets easy, I'm like, oh, why aren't we pushing ourselves? Like, why are we growing faster? Why don't we learn something else? [00:40:16] S0: I I, you know, I watch in the news when the Evolve news happened and, you know, you guys are heavily based on Evolve. Can't... I was just like talking to my friend. I can imagine what IMAD is going through now, like, to deal with that. That that should happen, Just you [00:40:29] S1: in a normal Tuesday. Alright. Maybe a couple more things that we wrap up. Which founders inspire you the most these days?
00:40:29 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang, Rajat Suri
[00:40:29] S1: in a normal Tuesday. Alright. Maybe a couple more things that we wrap up. Which founders inspire you the most these days? [00:40:40] S0: I think it's not like a single founder anymore. I used to really inspire by Elon and all the stuff that he's doing to advance the humanity. But nowadays, it's like I'm surrounding myself with a lot of the best founders in Europe. Right? So Manny from eleven Labs, Victor from Cincessia, and a lot of the early stage companies, like, just doing extremely well out of out of Europe and competing with some of the best companies in in America. And I think as outsider, not from Silicon Valley, built a company out of Melbourne that was no mentorship. And and I think this is, like, you know, like, well, seeing these founders, like, working extremely hard, and and I'm just getting inspired to work hard as well. Right? So... And, you know, we we we we all just wanted to carry that spirit. [00:41:31] S2: What has been the most difficult part of your journey to date? [00:41:35] S0: I think it's like, as a founder, you always believe in... I mean, at least I always believe in, like, a truth and and fair and justice. And when things that are not true, but that you have to deal with, you know, we just talk about, and that is... It's pretty difficult. Right? And it's almost like the perception is more important than the truth, and that you have to figure out a way to communicating the truth using all sort of tactic. And... But I guess that's just the the life a founder need to live in, and that's how we grow.