Founders in Arms
00:28:24 · Rajat Suri, Immad Akhund
[00:28:24] S2: And so, you know, I think... So it sounds like talent was a major issue for you, you know, just getting that right. How... You said you have 2,000 members of your team now. Right? Like, how... How's your, like, leadership team structured? Like, how how have you figured out, like, executive hiring in a global team? Because that's something that I've never dealt with. Maybe Matt's not dealt with it either. Yeah. How do you strike I actually talking [00:28:47] S1: to Jack about this. It was a couple of months ago, and he was saying how how hard it is to get exec talent because you've got all of these time zones and you've got... You... People have to, you know, work some insane hours and stuff. So, yeah, I think there's definitely some unique challenges.
00:29:02 · Jack Zhang, Immad Akhund
[00:29:02] S0: Yeah. So I think I think the most difficult thing is actually time zone, right? So we we we have 26 offices globally, and we have a third of our executive in San Francisco, a third in Singapore, and the rest is, like, distributed everywhere. You know, I'm based out of London, and my CPO, Shannon, based out of Melbourne. And and then we have, you know, folks in New York as well. So it's it's hard. I mean, only time that we can get together, you know, it's it's like, you know, it's difficult for for most of everybody. Right? So... And then, you know, most likely to be very early in San Francisco, very late in San Francisco, most likely to be 11PM. Right? So not many is active in The US wanted to deal with that from the get go, especially the the best talent. Right? So they have a lot of choices, and to kind of making that commitment is a is a is a big investment from from the the sort of personal life perspective. And I guess that you just have to keep trying to find a person that believe in that vision and and wanted to, you know, feel more passionate about running a global business, feel more, you know, connect to that vision that I wanted to build this global platform. And it's, you know, it's it's definitely like 10 times harder than than a normal recruitment process. [00:30:31] S1: Is there a type of profile that you find that is excited about it? I feel like Americans are a little more insular, like, maybe Europeans or, like, you know, Europeans living in America. Is there a profile that you find as, like, yeah, people, like, really excited about
00:30:31 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang, Rajat Suri
[00:30:31] S1: Is there a type of profile that you find that is excited about it? I feel like Americans are a little more insular, like, maybe Europeans or, like, you know, Europeans living in America. Is there a profile that you find as, like, yeah, people, like, really excited about [00:30:45] S0: building global business? I I think think US, Australia, or or European doesn't doesn't really matter. It's just more to do with the the personnel that how connected they are to to you as a founder and then to the mission and vision of the company. [00:31:00] S2: Let's jump into the rapid fire. [00:31:03] S1: I can get started. What's the current trend of fashion that you think is a passing fad? [00:31:09] S0: I don't think the the valuation of AI company gonna last that long. [00:31:14] S2: Yeah. [00:31:14] S0: I mean, it's, you know, everything have to be based on future cash flow and EBITDA. Right? So everybody using the same financial model, I mean, unless I'm wrong. Right? So everybody have to discount their future earning, you know, back to today. I mean, I think there's definitely a lot of hard companies in AI, but I think ultimately, the valuation is going be rationalized in the proper markets. [00:31:39] S1: I guess the counterargument they would make is that they're growing like crazy, right? Like, I guess it depends what type of AI company, but Anthropic, like, the 10x in revenue.
00:31:39 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:31:39] S1: I guess the counterargument they would make is that they're growing like crazy, right? Like, I guess it depends what type of AI company, but Anthropic, like, the 10x in revenue. [00:31:48] S0: I think, I mean, you remember in 2021, we, as a fintech company, we're also growing crazy, and we all raised money at... You know, we raised money at close to 100x revenue. Right? So mean, I probably even higher [00:32:00] S1: Mercury was 125 x revenue in 2021.
00:32:00 · Immad Akhund, Jack Zhang
[00:32:00] S1: Mercury was 125 x revenue in 2021. [00:32:05] S0: You know, we all kind of been there, but, you know, then since like '22 that everything, you know, just falls through the the cliff. Right? So that... Then there's a couple years our valuation is flat or or, you know, a lot of company... Most of company actually did down round if they didn't raise money in 2021. So, you know, we... We're able to grow out of the the valuation trap, you know, last two years ago, and and now we're kind of well above the water. But the multiple went to, like, from a 100 times revenue to 10 times gross profit. Right? So it it is a 90% contraction in terms of multiple. I don't think... I don't know if the AI company gonna experience the same, but I I definitely don't think, like, you know, raising at, you know, 50 times revenue is is is the norm. Right? I think it's gonna be rationalized to the to the public market multiple, even as AI company. And also, like, you know, most of fintech company today is not growing slow. Right? Revolut is growing very fast. You know, we're growing very fast. You guys are growing very fast. So, you know, like, it... You know, we're talking about doing $1,200,000,000 revenue still growing close to a 100%. Right? So it's it's... I think, like, you know, it's it's... The the gross adjusted multiple is also gonna get rationalized as you scale. [00:33:25] S1: I guess the question is when? [00:33:28] S0: That's for the investor to worry about. [00:33:30] S1: Yeah. Exactly.
00:33:30 · Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri, Jack Zhang
[00:33:30] S1: Yeah. Exactly. [00:33:31] S2: I... By the way, I saw this... The tweet about Stripe, you know, looking to acquire you. I was actually wondering what the story was behind there. Like, how did that come about? You know, what was the backstory? I don't think you mentioned that in your tweet. Right? [00:33:44] S0: I think it's, you know, we basically operating a global money movement infrastructure where Stripe is very much focused on pay in, right? And the two company is a complementary infrastructure, but obviously went on the different direction after we rejected the acquisition. And we imagine like Air Wallet combined with Stripe today, it's like a global banking plus global payments platform is a pretty powerful combination. Right? So I think ultimately, that we we feel the, you know, the future of the company is is still kind of have a different vision. Right? So Stripe wanted to grow the GDP of the Internet, that we wanted to, you know, help entrepreneurs globally to to grow and operating every corner in the world. And we we wanna be the the financial operating system for global businesses. So essentially, like, alternative to to Citi or HSBC. So, like, from that point of view, we're more like a global banking start up, whereas Stripe is more like a payment start up and then focus on the the the growth of the GDP. [00:34:55] S1: What what year was this? [00:34:57] S0: '20... End of twenty eighteen, early twenty nineteen.