This Week in Startups
00:40:07 · D.A. Wallach, S0, Dave McClure
[00:40:07] S2: These guys, as they are chain smoking their cigarettes, are are are showing you that they are religious extremists. Okay? These are dyed in the wool legitimate religious extremists, and they might be right. And if they're right, we should we should thank them because they're saving civilization. But if they're wrong, they're just religious extremists who happen to be engaged in the greatest business of this moment, but they will ultimately be beaten by people who are really good at business, [00:40:41] S0: which you don't see for religious and cult leaders often. I think Scientology had it for, like, a decade maybe where they were surging in growth and surging in revenue and they had the tech and it it... They couldn't sustain it. Right? But this is a I mean, this weird. With performance. I mean, not since Christianity have we seen this. I mean, Jesus was on all cylinders objectively. [00:41:06] S2: You know, by the way, they... Jensen [00:41:08] S0: why they took him out. [00:41:09] S2: GPUs. Jensen doing GPUs fifteen years ago did not know he was gonna end up in this position Right. In this revolution. [00:41:17] S0: He didn't know he was GPU Jesus. [00:41:20] S3: No. He was No.
00:41:20 · Dave McClure, D.A. Wallach, S0, Lon Harris
[00:41:20] S3: No. He was No. [00:41:22] S2: Dario, studying physics at Caltech, did not know he was gonna be building the expertise that would put him in the middle of the great economic revolution of our time. So these guys, to a certain extent, are... They had prepared minds, but they're here accidentally almost. And the the folks who are competing with them are... The folks who are competing with them, Zac, Satya, they are not here by accident. [00:41:44] S0: No. Those are They are here for the money. Capitalists. [00:41:47] S2: Yes. These are for the money, and they're really good at the tech too. [00:41:50] S0: And Sam Altman would fall into that category. Dave? Okay. Now you've heard his decision, and you get to that. Go ahead. [00:41:57] S3: Alright. I I think that D. A. Was doing his best, David Sachs impression there, channeling your bestie, Jason, and my former [00:42:05] S1: No. [00:42:05] S0: I don't think I've ever heard Sachs take that position exactly. [00:42:08] S3: Hardly never. [00:42:10] S0: No, no, think he thinks they are religious zealots, etcetera, and they're going after regulatory capture. I think what D. A. Is saying is they're not going after regulatory capture because their business cutthroats. They believe what they're saying. They believe it to the same extent that they will cut themselves believing that they're gonna naturally heal from AI. They'll they'll rip darts knowing that.
00:42:10 · S0, Dave McClure, Ben Black
[00:42:10] S0: No, no, think he thinks they are religious zealots, etcetera, and they're going after regulatory capture. I think what D. A. Is saying is they're not going after regulatory capture because their business cutthroats. They believe what they're saying. They believe it to the same extent that they will cut themselves believing that they're gonna naturally heal from AI. They'll they'll rip darts knowing that. [00:42:36] S3: You you can be a believer in the benevolence and godhood, deity of AI and also be interested in making money. I actually do agree that Dario maybe isn't in it for the money exclusively. I I... Know, Machines of Loving Grace and all that other shit aside, I think he believes it. I really do think that he's trying to birth a deity that is a benevolent deity and will save humanity. I fully believe he believes that. He also probably is okay with making money. Now he made a bunch of money at Google before he got to Anthropic. But I I think that Sam is in a different category. I I think Sam is, you know, a venture capitalist and has a lot of ambition, probably more in the mold of Elon than than Dario. But, like, all these people working at AI companies, yes, they may be there to change the world. They're also probably fine with making money. So those two things are not mutually exclusive in my book. [00:43:33] S0: Okay, Ben. You wanna get you wanna get in here, Russell Crowe? Go ahead. Go ahead, Gladys. Oh, yeah. [00:43:38] S4: You know, look. I say, like, I don't wanna listen to what people say. I I wanna look look what they do. Alright?
00:43:38 · Ben Black, S0, Dave McClure, D.A. Wallach
[00:43:38] S4: You know, look. I say, like, I don't wanna listen to what people say. I I wanna look look what they do. Alright? [00:43:44] S0: How many darts did you rip before this [00:43:48] S4: It's a [00:43:49] S0: Russell Crowe smoking darts in between takes on, Gladiator. Go ahead. [00:43:54] S4: Yeah. I I remember remember... One part of this business we haven't talked about at all is the cost of compute and all these long term and how important that go... Goes into the actual sort of fee... Like long term business model here. And, yeah, I have to remember Dario giving a very public scolding to Sam Altman for being irresponsible about all of his compute deals. Yes. Because Sam almost like [00:44:17] S0: Pull up that cliff, guys. It's when he said you can run off a cliff. Basically, you buy too much compute, you go bankrupt. It's the [00:44:23] S3: No love lost between those two folks at all. [00:44:25] S2: No love lost. [00:44:26] S0: These guys left OpenAI Yeah. Because they didn't trust Sam. That was what they said. Yes. Yeah. [00:44:33] S4: And then... But guess what? Sam was playing this game to win. And when it became clear that Sam was right, that you had to have compute locked up to win the business game, what did Dario go do? [00:44:44] S0: I mean, he's a rationalist. He's a rationalist. I mean, he's definitely not dumb if you build [00:44:49] S3: And by the way, that's why Elon is also winning too.
00:44:49 · Dave McClure, Ben Black, S0, D.A. Wallach
[00:44:49] S3: And by the way, that's why Elon is also winning too. [00:44:52] S4: He's realized that he is behind the eight ball and that and had to catch up. And that... I don't wanna hear you talk about him being a religious zealot because, I mean [00:44:59] S0: I mean, he listened. Jesus turned over the, the the the the tables at the bazaar. He was like, I'm... That's it. I'm taking over the bazaar where I'm gonna be the marketplace. [00:45:10] S4: Just the same, he's competing hard and he's got a very softer veneer about him and you know. [00:45:15] S0: It's really interesting. If you do an alternate history, D. A, I think you are, you know, as an artist and somebody who appreciates art, like the alternate history genre, perhaps under recognized in its time. But if we did an alt history here, I got Lon's attention now by saying alt history. You do an alt history here. If Sam Altman was 20% less chaotic in his approach to business, I mean, it's like he is a bit chaotic. You know? You remember he got fired, he came back, all this stuff. He probably would not have lost Dario, and there might not be an Anthropic. [00:45:55] S2: I mean, by the way, he might not have lost Elon. [00:45:58] S0: Right. [00:45:59] S2: You know, these are all Elon's children. Wow. And, know, and the godfather is still looking like the godfather right now because even though he got into this also out of his religious solitary... And, you know, Jason, you know, he he believes this. [00:46:13] S0: Right? He's been he's been very public about it. Had this conversation many nights.
00:46:13 · S0, D.A. Wallach, Lon Harris, Dave McClure
[00:46:13] S0: Right? He's been he's been very public about it. Had this conversation many nights. [00:46:17] S2: Okay. So Elon's really good at business, but we've also stayed up all night talking with Elon for the past ten years about how he believes this is gonna take over the world. So, you know, it's like he believes this too. So the... These guys were all one, like the father, the son, and the holy spirit. They have now fractured. [00:46:37] S1: It's a schism. [00:46:37] S2: Okay? And and and and and and, basically, what fractured them was that Sam had to [00:46:43] S0: be the guy. Yes. [00:46:44] S2: You know? But but, know, you can't... You you gotta respect the sensei. You know? The the student can't overshadow the teacher. And then and and then Dario looked around. He said, oh, wait. These guys like money? I thought they were just here for the religious idolatry. And so I gotta go do my own thing. So the the the genealogy of this whole thing begins with this religious fanaticism. [00:47:09] S1: Right. [00:47:09] S2: And and the non profit a non profit. It will not... Unless unless they are right that this is software Jesus, this will not end with religious fanaticism. This will end with normal business. It will probably end with Microsoft and Google being much bigger. Maybe Oracle will even win. Maybe Larry Ellison's swan [00:47:34] S3: That's a long shot. [00:47:35] S2: Will be the greatest [00:47:36] S3: That's a really big one. [00:47:37] S2: Riskiest hand that's ever played putting