Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:27:37 · Molly Graham, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:27:37] S1: Okay. To me, most important is change is scary and hard, but that doesn't mean it's bad. That means you have to embrace the emotions that come with it, but you also have to lean into it and you should let go. Yes, it's scary and yes, it feels like there may not be anything waiting on the other side, but what's the alternative, to hold on to this thing that might be slowly dying? That's not safe either. So leaning into change feels like to me the most important thing for folks to take away. I think as part of that, I would just say grief is part of this and sometimes grief needs a funeral or do what you got to do to be sad. Let your teams be sad. Let the people around you make space for that because with change comes shedding things that you loved and that sucks. I think one of the other things that feels like it really came out, Lenny, is there is opportunity here and we got to start ignoring or muting or whatever some of this fear narrative because right now the data isn't saying there are no jobs for you. The data is saying actually there's going to be a lot of opportunity created by this, particularly if you're willing to lean into reinvention, not what was the form of your job two years ago, but what might it be in five years? What else? I guess breaking down walls is the other thing I was thinking, but what came to your list? [01:29:19] S0: Well, there's the minute kind of perspective of imagine your job isn't going to go away, imagine your job will continue, but be different.
01:29:19 · Lenny Rachitsky, Molly Graham
[01:29:19] S0: Well, there's the minute kind of perspective of imagine your job isn't going to go away, imagine your job will continue, but be different. [01:29:22] S1: Yeah, exactly. It was a real mind change for me when she said that because I was like, " Whoa. Yeah, what is engineering going to look like in five years?" [01:29:35] S0: Right. It's not going to go away. It's going to be something different. [01:29:38] S1: Maybe there'll be more of it, like journalism. There's more journalists out there for better or for worse. [01:29:43] S0: Yeah. And so far there's more PMs, more product, more engineers. So far that's going well. Another kind of takeaway is just be deliberate about what you give to AI. And there's a few ways to think about it. One is just like what is AI going to do a terrible job at? Don't do that. What is it you love that you don't want it to take for you? How do you avoid brain rot and just overrelying in AI? There's a few things there, just AI is not going to... Don't give everything to AI. [01:30:11] S1: Yeah. And I think also for a lot of us acknowledging that AI is not this super intelligent being, it is much more like an intern, and that means literally think about it as an intern. What would you give to an intern and what would you never give them? [01:30:11] S0: I think that's the core of it.
01:30:11 · Lenny Rachitsky, Molly Graham
[01:30:11] S0: I think that's the core of it. [01:30:28] S1: Yeah. And I feel like... Well, I feel like we said this, but there just may be some things we should never give away, and that is genuinely different. Give away your Legos, but be discerning about what you should keep and what should be human and what humans are here for. I think that's part of the conversation for the next however many years is what are humans uniquely good at? [01:30:52] S0: And what I think about there, just very concretely in my mind is be the person that guides what you're doing to a place, to the vision you have of the world you want, not just the simplest thing, not the thing that AI is kind of pointing to, just what do you actually want, and that's kind of our job for a while. [01:31:09] S1: Yeah. And at the individual level, how can this new tool, this fun, intelligent intern that you've hired, let you do more of what you love, let you bring more joy into the world, let you lean into the things that you love doing. How can it amplify you instead of feeling like all you're doing is losing things to it? [01:31:28] S0: What a moment in time we're in, Molly, right now, trying to figure all this out. [01:31:32] S1: We're going to re-watch this in a year or two and make fun of ourselves. [01:31:35] S0: Oh, we're going to be, "We nailed it. We got everything right." [01:31:39] S1: Perfect.
01:31:39 · Molly Graham, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:31:39] S1: Perfect. [01:31:39] S0: Visionaries. Oh, man. Well, with that, Molly, is there anything else? Anything you want to plug? Anything you want to point people to? Anything you want to tell people about that you're up to that might be interesting, useful to them?
01:31:50 · Molly Graham
[01:31:50] S1: I'll say two things. First, I get a lot of wisdom, but also a lot of support for this kind of conversation from the community in Glue Club, and I think if you're a leader listening to this and feeling lonely and a little bit unsupported, find a community, whether it's Glue Club or another one, where you can talk about this because I do think leaning on each other to learn what's real and what's not and what's valuable and what it's not... So much of what we're doing in Glue Club is being like, "Is anybody else seeing this?" And that is really valuable. You can do it in Lennyland as well, but just get out there and talk about what's real and what's not. Don't just stay in a sad, lonely hole. But the second thing I wanted to say, Lenny, is thank you for making space for this. I think it's important. There's so much space right now for the what should I do and what skills should I get and what course should I take and what tools should I try next? Who's hot today? But we aren't talking enough about the human side of this and what it feels like to be going through this for everyone. And so I'm grateful that you reached out and we talked about making space to talk about this because I think hopefully people will leave feeling a little more sane and like, "Oh, everybody else is feeling a little crazy right now too." And there's lots of people out there grieving and that's okay. That's normal. So thank you, Lenny.
01:33:14 · Lenny Rachitsky, Molly Graham
[01:33:14] S0: Thank you, Molly. I think of these... I have a term for these sorts of episodes. I call them Trojan horse episodes where people come for all this tactical concrete, how do I use AI in this way, how do I become better PM, and then there's these like- [01:33:30] S1: You get therapy. [01:33:31] S0: Important episodes that slip right in. Yeah, exactly. And you're like, "Oh, okay. I didn't know I needed that, but that was very helpful." So welcome to the Trojan Horse. We're smuggling in. [01:33:41] S1: I love it. [01:33:42] S0: Very timely with the Odyssey these days. [01:33:44] S1: Yeah, dude. [01:33:45] S0: All right, Molly. Well, thank you so much for being here. [01:33:47] S1: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Lenny. [01:33:49] S0: Bye everyone. [01:33:50] S1: Bye everybody. [01:33:51] S0: Thank you so much for listening. If you found this valuable, you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Also, please consider giving us a rating or leaving a review as that really helps other listeners find the podcast. You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com. See you in the next episode.