· David Senra, Alexandr Wang
[00:00:00] S0: Okay, but that might get them, raise awareness, might even get them to download the app. But then how do you get them to stay engaged once the app is on their phone? [00:00:00] S1: There's a cycle that people who really love the app, and we, even back in February, had, which is you try to give it a little thing, and it does it. And you're like, "Oh, wow, it did that." And then you try to give it something a little bit more, and then it does it. And you're like, "Oh, wow, it can do that?" It could do that first thing, it could do the second thing, and then you give it a little bit bigger of a problem. And it's kind of this trust fall almost that you have with an AI agent, which is at first you don't really trust it, but you're kind of intrigued, so you're going to give it a little nibble, and then you give it something a little bigger and something a little bigger and something a little bigger. Certainly, when I talk to college students or whatever, some of the ways that people use AI, it's like a full trust fall. They just are recording voice notes and brain dumping to the AI, and they send it, and they just trust the AI to organize all the thoughts and give them clear plans and clear things to do, et cetera. I think for the successful users of Muse, it really is like getting them onto this trust fall process of using it for slightly bigger and bigger and bigger things, and then having it work every one of those times.
· David Senra
[00:00:00] S0: I found one of my all-time favorite quotes when I was reading the book "Zero to One." The quote says, "The single most powerful pattern I have noticed is that successful people find value in unexpected places, and they do this by thinking about business from first principles instead of formulas." That is exactly what AppLovin has done with their advertising platform. AppLovin connects you with over a billion potential new customers in mobile games. AppLovin allows you to capture undivided attention. AppLovin ads are full-screen videos that are watched for an average of 35 seconds. That is retention that blows other ad platforms out of the water. And you can launch on AppLovin in minutes. You set the goal, and AppLovin achieves it. No complex setup, no expertise needed. And AppLovin scales quickly. They can put your ads in front of over a billion potential customers. Other businesses have seen immediate results, scaled to hundreds of thousands of dollars of spend per day, and increased their revenue by millions. So you want to get started quickly before all of your competitors are on AppLovin. And you can do that by going to applovin.com. That's applovin.com. I wonder how much of this is actually driven by word of mouth. So obviously, talking to you, I was going to have to download the app no matter what. But what really piqued my interest is a friend of mine who sent me screenshots of how he was using Muse. So, when you download the app, it doesn't really tell you like too much of like what you can do. It's kind of like open-ended, like a open text box. But a friend of mine who's running like a 100 billion dollar company, he left his ID on a Flexjet, and then he went through and he's just like, "Well, I want to..." He was telling Muse, "I don't want to be involved in this process at all. You have to figure out how to get the ID. Go pick up the ID. This is where it's at, and then this is where I'm at, and then figure out all the steps along the way." And then arranged the courier, went there, got through his security in his office somehow, and got upstairs to his office. And it was like, "Holy shit, this is the best marketing." It's just three or four screenshots of Muse going back and forth and him saying, "I don't want to be involved. You have to do everything," and then figuring it out on the way.
· Alexandr Wang, David Senra
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah, no, this is actually one of the things about... I don't know how int- it was like somewhat intentional, but definitely modern product marketing is very screenshot-driven. I think to have a modern consumer product, it has to work on the screenshot. The screenshot has to fly, so to speak, either through group chats or word of mouth or online. And I think that's been a big part of it. This wasn't intentional or engineered, but I think the fact that we had the little guy in the screenshot was a big deal. Because I think having Jolly or whoever your Muse is in the screenshot immediately communicates this is a Muse screenshot. It's just like the best marketing you could possibly have. [00:00:00] S0: So are you on your Muse all day long? What is your own personal usage? [00:00:00] S1: I mostly set up a lot of workflows using it, and then I guess my meetings a lot of the time. So in practice, I think in my job, quote-unquote, I'm supposed to pay attention and be pretty present and interact with people. I set up a bunch of workflows and kind of treat it as like a second brain. [00:00:00] S0: Yeah, you said that in the post that you wrote, and it was really short, and I think I saw last time it was five and a half million views so far. But you said, I love how you described Muse, like, "Well, if everyone had a second mind beyond their own."
· David Senra, Alexandr Wang
[00:00:00] S0: Yeah, you said that in the post that you wrote, and it was really short, and I think I saw last time it was five and a half million views so far. But you said, I love how you described Muse, like, "Well, if everyone had a second mind beyond their own." [00:00:00] S1: I think this is, philosophically speaking, one of the most interesting questions about what does it mean to be human when you have powerful AI, and what is that relationship like, and how exactly does that look? And different people have different takes on what exactly that looks like. I think the sort of fear case is obviously that AI is above us and that we're just sort of doing what they do, and there's other worlds where that relationship is different. [00:00:00] S0: Before you go on, what is your own personal view of that?
· David Senra, Alexandr Wang
[00:00:00] S0: Before you go on, what is your own personal view of that? [00:00:00] S1: I really believe in Muse. I believe in the personal agent as a long-term form factor of just it is human nature to have wants and desires and dreams. And I think AI and personal agents like Muse will be the mechanism and the bridge that enables us to accomplish those things and continue accomplishing them. And then humans will dream bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Kids will dream of having their own star systems or whatever, and Muse will help them do that. There's this thing that Bezos wrote in, well, I think it was one of his shareholder letters, which is the beautiful thing about consumers is that they're always beautifully unhappy or something like that, or beautifully unsatisfied with the options they have. That is one modality of our relationship with AI. I think that there's other modalities. I think that AI will start doing more and more of the scientific discovery process. I think AIs will start inserting more and more into various parts of the economy. But I do believe in this form factor long term of everyone having an AI that supports them and what they want. [00:00:00] S0: So you see AI as kind of removing all the kludge of life, right? The stuff that we don't want to do. I think in the piece you said something like, "The world is full of gatekeepers and obstacles, and Muse can get around this for you without spending any more of your time so you can actually focus on stuff you want to do."
· David Senra, Alexandr Wang
[00:00:00] S0: So you see AI as kind of removing all the kludge of life, right? The stuff that we don't want to do. I think in the piece you said something like, "The world is full of gatekeepers and obstacles, and Muse can get around this for you without spending any more of your time so you can actually focus on stuff you want to do." [00:00:00] S1: I think Muse can give everyone the adulthood they dreamed of in childhood. Everyone, when they're kids, they have big ideas and big dreams. And when they imagine their life and they sort of play it out, they imagine this life where they can be an astronaut or they can save the planet or they can change the world or whatever it might be. They think big. And then for a variety of reasons, by the time people finish school, they enter the workforce, by the time they have been in a job for a while, it's that all that hope and ambition and ability to dream has been sucked out of them. [00:00:00] S0: No, it's been beaten out of them. Life has beaten out of them.