Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
01:03:51 · Micky Malka, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[01:03:51] S2: I don't. I don't think about returns. I think returns is an output metric, and I focus a lot more on the input and I let the output take care of itself. Now, one thing that a friend of mine, a dear friend told me early on in this journey, Ribbit was, great work, you got your first fund raised, but guess what? You only truly win your stars on your shoulder when you return capital. So that stuck with me. It stuck with me in so many ways that from early on, was always thinking about it instead of trying to build an empire of AUM. And I always looked up at Berkshire since I was a kid, how they compounded and compounded and compounded the balance sheet, I understood that I was playing a different kind of game than that and just the differences on that. [01:04:43] S0: So how does that manifest in something like price? We were talking before about a company that has all the trappings of an incredible founder opportunity at the edge of what's possible, and the price is to say nosebleeds would be understating it. How do you think about a situation like that? [01:05:03] S2: Warren Buffett used to say that if you graduated from business school or college and they give you a scar with like ten [01:05:11] S0: Twenty punches on it, that one, yeah.
01:05:11 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Micky Malka
[01:05:11] S0: Twenty punches on it, that one, yeah. [01:05:12] S2: Yeah. Exactly. That's all you should do in your life and be very careful. I think we each wanna have one of those to just pack amazing people regardless of value. So you're not gonna do that every day. You're not gonna do that every year. But I put myself in your shoes and say, okay, Patrick, you have interviewed almost every smart person there is to interview in America, and eventually you will do this around the world. You have met them, you've seen them vulnerable, you've seen them speak, you've seen them interact, you talk to them online, offline, and then you find somebody who blows your mind away. What in your framework does not give you the right to punch that card? Why get stuck on value when you have array of exposure to people and as you get older, your gut overtakes your brain and you gotta trust it more. So that's the way I think of it. I said, am I gonna build a business like that? Probably not because it's not the right way. It's really hard to do it and you end up gambling a lot more than you are investing. But would you make an exception when you find somebody unique and just close your eyes and said, don't look at it for literally five years, ten years, and just see this person became amazing, and if not, learn why. Definitely, you should do it.
01:06:33 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[01:06:33] S0: It makes me think of other singular things. And fintech for sure, with exceptions, of course, like Robinhood, I wouldn't say is an area that's associated with amazing brands. You and I spent some fascinating time together learning from some of the people that have built the most iconic brands in the world. How is your view on the importance of brand evolve? Like what does a great brand mean to you?
01:06:55 · Micky Malka
[01:06:55] S2: It's the topic that I've been spending the most time the last two years outside of these trends and what we need to do here. You have some of the greatest podcasts on brand stories too. I think at the end, brand is to under promise and over deliver on anything that you do. And that's how great brands get built. So if you can do that and you can be a great storyteller that under promise and over deliver, in no matter what area you are, you will win. Now, what I find interesting is that most people are not trained to think about brand. No one taught them about this concept. They didn't study it in college. They didn't grow up in an environment even though America's brands around the world are some of the best in everything. When we were building Ribbit, I always said, why are we not doing active speaking or marketing or Twitter? Because our brand needed to come from the founders. Our brand needed to come is when you ask any founder, who is the first person you call, will they say Ribbit? And if we win that battle, that's our brand. So what I've learned about it is that when you talk to entrepreneurs in our space, any space in around e commerce or digital financial services or crypto. Crypto has a terrible brand for the record. The crypto brands such as this... Who came up with the Bitcoin logo? There's no brand story there. And despite all of those things, look at what he has done. Imagine if he had a grip. One day that will happen, but not yet. When you look at the best companies around the world, you took Samir from PhonePe or David from Nubank, you talked to Nikolay at Revolut, how they built it, they never spent a lot of money on marketing. All they did was over deliver on what they promised. And that's what it takes.
01:08:52 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[01:08:52] S0: Such a simple and incredibly elegant concept. Thinking about visual parts of brands, making me think about art. And your commitment to how art is changing is certainly the most interesting of anyone that I've met. You clearly love it. You mentioned it earlier as a way to see the future, that artists see the future so you can piggyback on their experience. How have you approached this part of your life? And again, we're sitting around some of the most incredible, beautiful art, but art that's very different from what you would see in a normal home or fancy art collection. It's new, it's interactive, it's unique. Why are you so interested in this and how have you approached this world?
01:09:36 · Micky Malka
[01:09:36] S2: Growing up in Venezuela, my wife and I are both from there. Venezuela had some of the most amazing artists in the world when we were kids. So in the fifties and sixties, Venezuela had the highest GDP per capita in the world. It was Saudi Arabia before we were even born. But... And the Venezuelan artists were leading some of the best art movements worldwide. And it was present everywhere. It was present in the highways, in the universities, in the shopping centers, in the museums. You saw it everywhere. So we grew up seeing modern, beautiful artists and their concepts. And when we started on this journey, she's the one that got us back to that journey together in the last number of years. But then during the 2022 downturn, when things started to cool down a bit and we had more bandwidth and I had more free time, I had missed completely the NFT craziness of the first vintage of nineteen to twenty. Completely missed it. Like, we were so busy with other stuff. I hadn't seen anything. I was like, what are these things? People are trading these tokens. I felt like it was like GameStop kind of meme stuff. But then in two thousand and eight, twenty two, stumbled upon, as I had more even more free time, a art piece that suddenly looked like something from the nineteen fifties that we knew. But it was completely different. It was the same, but it was different. It was dynamic. It moved. It was the same kind of concept. And I was like, what is this? This looks like real... This doesn't look like a meme, Manila. This looks like something completely different. We went down that rabbit hole and then said, what are the CryptoPunks? And, oh, wow. There's only 10,000 of them, and they're the first ever generative art ever put on chain. And what does it mean? And the community of Cryptopunks is stronger than any other community, literally. I think it's even stronger than the community of people that own a Ferrari around the world on how they speak, how they relate, how they identify themselves. These are truly aspects that I have not seen. You're seeing network states. There's a lot of talk about network states. There are network states getting built around some of these movements, And you can see their movements now. They're not just one artist doing one thing. So we slowly started to get into this, and then we started to meet these artists. And guess what?