Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast
01:01:21 · Shawn Wang, Jacob Lauritzen
[01:01:21] S1: Yeah. Because it's just like, oh, I just want real Exactly. People doing And then, yeah, just was Exactly. Pull stuff out. [01:01:29] S0: Exactly. The problem with buying law firm data is, well, you get all the inputs, the real inputs, which is great. The outputs are a little bit more difficult, because you just get what their end result was, and it's difficult to figure out if, like, the way... You have to basically, like, reverse engineer how they got there. So in our product, when we get real traces from really users, it's extremely high value, but if we just got this output, and we don't know if it's good or bad, or how it was created, it's a little bit difficult. [01:01:53] S1: We're gonna wrap up soon. The last thing I'll point people to is also, there's a lot of alpha left on embeddings. You're a rag heavy workload, you're just looking at MTEB and you're taking, like, top model, you're leaving a lot on the table, you should look at Voyage or some of the custom embeddings. You've gone into this. Yeah, yeah, So basically, don't take default embeddings, even OpenAI embeddings, Gemini embeddings, doesn't matter, customize your embeddings. Yeah. Right? Yes. You will you will support that. [01:02:18] S0: Yes. I think that's right. I think that's right. The only thing is you need to make sure that you're multi language. So, us, we we serve so many languages, so that's [01:02:25] S1: I gonna be mean, you're one of of this. [01:02:27] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mr. Au, helpful there? No. Until...
01:02:27 · Jacob Lauritzen, Alessio Fanelli, Shawn Wang
[01:02:27] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mr. Au, helpful there? No. Until... [01:02:34] S2: Well, until now, they just raised a ton of money. Right? So maybe [01:02:37] S0: Yeah. Let's see. You guys They also raised a ton of money. You're be your champions. [01:02:41] S1: Like I [01:02:41] S0: think we need way more model companies out of the... Out of Europe. Yes. [01:02:45] S2: I just wanted to ask you, like, what predictions do you have maybe over the next year for the wine industry? [01:02:51] S1: We asked a little bit of that earlier. I'll modify it to your second question, which is, in two years, will lawyers do their work inside Legora, or will they use other tools like Claude or ChatGPT and call Legora, like, you know, the API. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [01:03:05] S0: Yeah. I think both. It really depends. I think if you're an an big enterprise, you might have Claude co work, and then you'll... It's... I think it's similar to, like, how I use Linear through Claude, but I still go to Linear. I think enterprise will do that. I think law firms will just use Legora [01:03:18] S1: Yeah. [01:03:18] S0: Because that's simpler and better. [01:03:20] S2: Yeah. It kinda reminds me of, like, open evidence for, like, medicine. Like, you're you're basically that for law. [01:03:25] S1: Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Encoding is going to a point where people... The labs will cut you off for competing with them, and this has happened twice. Yep. Do you do you think that will happen to law? [01:03:34] S0: No. I don't think so. I think
01:03:34 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang, Alessio Fanelli
[01:03:34] S0: No. I don't think so. I think [01:03:35] S1: Because, like, you know, they are releasing legal services. Yeah. [01:03:38] S2: Yeah. Yeah. [01:03:38] S0: They are. I don't... I mean, we obviously talk to them a lot, but it's also... It's like, hey, are you gonna [01:03:44] S1: Your sales reps will say no. Exactly. They don't make the call. [01:03:47] S0: Exactly. That's not their... Right? And they don't even know, like, often what's actually going on. I don't think I don't think that's the case. They have so much stuff to capture in knowledge work or in in sort of enterprises knowledge work generally, that, like, legal has to be part of that, just like data analytics has to, and sales, and marketing, and finance. So, like, they have to do things that are good there, but they're never gonna go as deep as we are, and I think if if Claude takes small clients, small, you know, corporate clients and they do some of their legal via Claude, like, that's that's great. That's fine. But if you're doing a, you know, $400,000,000 M and A transaction, you're gonna want Legora. [01:04:22] S2: I had kind of an unrelated question, but I'm curious, are you guys going to law schools and kinda like getting them to like teach Legora, like in classes? Like, how does that work? [01:04:33] S0: Yeah. It's definitely a program that we are... I think we've started. I actually don't know exactly where we are, but we we do want people in law school to learn to use Legora. [01:04:42] S2: Like, are you seeing that, like, law schools are changing their curriculums a lot or not really?
01:04:42 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang
[01:04:42] S2: Like, are you seeing that, like, law schools are changing their curriculums a lot or not really? [01:04:46] S0: I don't know. I I I wouldn't know, actually. [01:04:49] S2: Interesting. [01:04:50] S1: I would actually do it a different way. Should do scholarships for for law school for CS majors, for for engineers. So we will cover After your [01:04:58] S0: you've done CS? Yes. [01:04:59] S1: We'll we'll put you law school? CS plus some software experience? Yeah. We'll put you in law school. Yeah. We'll cover it. [01:05:04] S2: Or you do like the MA, like master's plus JD programs? [01:05:09] S1: Yeah. We don't care about the master's. [01:05:12] S2: Meaning meaning like, because there's a lot of people who didn't do CS undergrad, so then they do like master's just to kinda like get [01:05:17] S1: that Yeah. Set I I don't know. Don't see that as as often. Yeah. Yeah. People do JD MBA. That's a thing. Yeah. But JDCS, I haven't seen it. Yeah. Happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Look. Overall, you know, super impressive progress. I mean, congrats on all your success. Like, are you still gonna keep up the pace? Like Absolutely. Yeah. You know? And I think you're hiring in SF New York. We're hiring. [01:05:42] S0: In... Yeah. Engineering, we're hiring in New York, Stockholm, and London. Yeah. And all other roles, we're hiring everywhere. How many people do [01:05:51] S2: you have in New York right now? [01:05:52] S0: A 100. About a 100. [01:05:53] S2: And you guys are planning on how many in New York? In New York? [01:05:56] S0: Yeah. For just like generally?
01:05:56 · Jacob Lauritzen, Alessio Fanelli, Shawn Wang
[01:05:56] S0: Yeah. For just like generally? [01:05:58] S2: Let's just say, yeah, generally and [01:06:00] S0: generally. A lot. [01:06:01] S2: As many Yeah. As you [01:06:02] S0: It's aggressive. [01:06:05] S1: Yeah. I mean, that's the home of corporate law, right, as far as America's So like, yeah, I'm looking forward to you buying a law firm and, yeah. You know, It's super exciting to... I think, like, you know, every industry, especially, like, the top, like, doctors, lawyers, coders, you know, they all have to have, like, you know, two or three agent labs that, like, just completely I dominate the [01:06:28] S0: agree. So [01:06:29] S1: you guys have, like, a great market. Yeah. I think [01:06:31] S0: so. And I think it's only gonna get much bigger as like law changes and get... Becomes more available to more people. [01:06:37] S1: Yeah. Also, think like, I mean, we're already like super over, but like the problems that you work on are very... Like the frontier knowledge work. You Yep. They're... Okay. Unless you're literally, like, doing, like, Navier Stokes. Navier Stokes and science. Other than that, like, most work is, like, basically converges to legal. Yep. Like... [01:07:01] S0: It's all legal in the end. [01:07:02] S1: Yeah. Hiring, finance, everything, like, just have to consult my lawyer, so... [01:07:05] S0: Yeah, I know. I know. Which is why I think it's a really exciting thing to work on, because like modern society runs in some way on legal. [01:07:12] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Alright. That's it. Thank you. Cool. [01:07:14] S0: Thank you. Thanks.