Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast
00:22:20 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang, Alessio Fanelli
[00:22:20] S0: in the room. There till, [00:22:21] S1: like, 4AM. Yeah. Like, that that doesn't need to happen. Right? Because now you can extract it and you can go and re prompt everything. Mhmm. So, like, yeah. And I think now I don't need a paralegal for that, but, like, a good, like, super AI pilled paralegal would do something else. You know? Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Whatever [00:22:37] S0: it is. They can do more stuff or, like, spend more time on the things that they, you know, didn't have time for before Or actually sleep. Who knows? No? [00:22:44] S2: I have a question. So you guys bought a company, Kira. Yes. Is that how you say it? Yep. And you you guys used your own product to do the M and A? [00:22:52] S0: Yes. We do that all time. [00:22:52] S1: So how did that work? Like, you talk a bit about that? Including... [00:22:55] S0: Yeah. No. That works great. We're doing that a lot. Our legal team is is... I mean, intake has been built with our legal team. Because right now, we have a Slack workflow where everyone's throws their stuff in, they're like, this is annoying. [00:23:04] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:05] S0: Right? And inefficient. So, it's like, great. We should lose Legora for that. [00:23:08] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, you know, what that process looked like?
00:23:08 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang
[00:23:08] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, you know, what that process looked like? [00:23:11] S0: Yeah. Absolutely. So, it's it's... We do a lot of the due diligence ourselves because we can do it with Tabular Review and other tools. We do still have counsel coming in to, like, assess certain risks or, like, you know, there's payroll, and so Zakura was simple because I was all in Sweden, but, know, we've done one in Canada and one in Australia, and so there's, like, payroll in Australia. Okay. Do we want someone to look at this, like, a bit more strategically? So there, we will still use Legora for the strategic part, they could actually be sparring partners and help us a lot on, like, how to figure out how to structure this the right way, but a lot of the more menial stuff, we could actually just do ourselves. So, like, a lot of the, yeah, a lot of the early things we would find, and we have had cases where we found something that's been, like, a red flag, and then we've we've pulled the brakes. Can you [00:23:55] S1: talk a little bit about any of these? No. Don't think so. Yeah. [00:23:59] S2: Alright. Early on, you said you... Your early customers were Swedish, like Swedish law firms. Have you seen a difference between working with, like, Swedish law versus, like, American law firms, that sort of thing? You guys are mostly working with, like, big, big law firms. [00:24:14] S0: Right? Well, we're also... Smaller law firms also. Oh, No. We we definitely started really, really big law firms, but 50 lawyers also use us and and get a
00:24:14 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang, Alessio Fanelli
[00:24:14] S0: Right? Well, we're also... Smaller law firms also. Oh, No. We we definitely started really, really big law firms, but 50 lawyers also use us and and get a [00:24:23] S1: lot of value. [00:24:23] S2: Yeah. So have you seen differences between working with, like, the Swedish ones versus American ones? Maybe, like, even, I don't know, Asian ones? [00:24:29] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the European ones have been a bit slower to move. The American ones are very forward, move really quickly. I think it's also very high on their agenda of the American companies, more so than the European ones, I think. It's like a strategic, super important thing we need to just, like, do a lot here. The American companies generally, both corporates and law firms, also have a much higher appetite to, like, custom build stuff. That's like a thing that they all want to do. Like, hey, we wanna build this, like, huge thing with you guys and, like, structure it in whatever way, whereas Europeans are much more like, we'll just take the off the shelf [00:25:03] S2: and What's an example of something they would wanna build themselves?
00:25:03 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen
[00:25:03] S2: and What's an example of something they would wanna build themselves? [00:25:06] S0: Integrations into their own... Like, some of these customers build their own CRM and their own document management system and their own all sorts of stuff, and they want to build that, and then they want to build triggers that, like, you do a review in in Salesforce and it goes to this one person for whatever reason, and they do something, and then it goes into Legora, and then it goes back in, And there was... So that's, like, the simple end, and there are some that are extremely ambitious, whereas, like, a whole new product that they wanna build with us, and I... You know, we can't really do that. [00:25:31] S2: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:32] S0: But but that's definitely a thing where, like, American companies really want to build their own more than European ones do. [00:25:39] S2: And the European ones are like, hey, like, you know, they give you product suggestions or... [00:25:43] S0: Yeah. For sure. I mean, we have great collaboration with all of them. Yeah. So they'll they'll say, hey, this sucks. This is great. We want more of this, and we'll just build a a product that does that. [00:25:52] S2: Okay. So they don't see, like, an existential threat here in their business? I mean, they Whereas the American ones do, or
00:25:52 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen
[00:25:52] S2: Okay. So they don't see, like, an existential threat here in their business? I mean, they Whereas the American ones do, or [00:25:58] S0: I don't know if that's the reason that they want a custom build versus not I custom think they both know that this is, like, extremely important and key to their firm's success and their corporate success. So they... It's both extremely important. I think it's just a different way to achieve it. [00:26:12] S2: Okay. Another question I think maybe you you wanna bring this up is, like, product metrics. Like, how do you know that, like, we're actually doing something good here? [00:26:21] S0: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:22] S2: How do you think about that? I'm assuming that's also related to evals.
00:26:22 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang
[00:26:22] S2: How do you think about that? I'm assuming that's also related to evals. [00:26:25] S0: So we have the regular product metrics that we care a lot about. Are people spending a lot of time in our product? Do they seem to get a lot of value out of it? Do they renew it? Do they come back a lot? We have really good numbers for an enterprise software of, like, our DAO over MAU and our, like, you know, hours spent per month in the product are extremely high. And then we do some sort of... We do online emails also where it's, like, try to figure out generally, like, did we solve the problem here? Just with, like, super cheap LMS address, try to just, have an online metric, and then we can use that also when we do rollouts of new things. We can just, like, compare feature flag wise, okay, does it did it improve or, like, did it catastrophically decline? Because one thing actually that might be interesting, that's difficult for our business is we can't look at any traces, basically. We can't look at any data because it's all super confidential, and that's, like, extremely frustrating to work with because you you basically don't know what people are doing. So it's like, here's an agent, and it can do so many amazing things, and I have no idea what people are actually [00:27:19] S1: doing. [00:27:20] S2: I would have assumed you guys signed some sort of agreement with the law firm, and they're like, oh yeah,