Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast
00:21:24 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang
[00:21:24] S0: And maybe that's the... There are those other people that are best positioned to do this kind of stuff. [00:21:28] S1: I think the the the derogatory term of Meet Proxy, where you just like sit in front of the machine and type in something that someone else tells you to type, and then you repeat what the machine tells you to say. Yep. But, like, I do think a very good me proxy is just like... Well, you know agents very well, and you you know Legora very well. Yep. And you know how to, like like, this is my toolkit, and, you know, every industry has a toolkit. Yep. And I can use my tools to do the thing that you need me to do. [00:21:53] S0: But I I guess then you're not really a proxy. Right? You're actually just doing meaningful work. Yeah. [00:21:57] S1: It's it's just like I no longer... Like, you know... Well, I'll talk about tabular review because that... That's that's a thing that happens a lot. I have hundreds, thousands, millions, thou... And thousands. [00:22:06] S0: We do up to a million cells, I think. [00:22:08] S1: In a in a single... That's impressive. Yeah. We should talk about the the table and the windowing. Yeah. At you know, I... I've, like... I'm working on a big case. I have a million documents. I type it in. Usually, I'll throw a pair... Throw, like, a team of paralegals, lock them [00:22:20] S0: in the room. There till,
00:22:20 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang, Alessio Fanelli
[00:22:20] S0: in the room. There till, [00:22:21] S1: like, 4AM. Yeah. Like, that that doesn't need to happen. Right? Because now you can extract it and you can go and re prompt everything. Mhmm. So, like, yeah. And I think now I don't need a paralegal for that, but, like, a good, like, super AI pilled paralegal would do something else. You know? Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Whatever [00:22:37] S0: it is. They can do more stuff or, like, spend more time on the things that they, you know, didn't have time for before Or actually sleep. Who knows? No? [00:22:44] S2: I have a question. So you guys bought a company, Kira. Yes. Is that how you say it? Yep. And you you guys used your own product to do the M and A? [00:22:52] S0: Yes. We do that all time. [00:22:52] S1: So how did that work? Like, you talk a bit about that? Including... [00:22:55] S0: Yeah. No. That works great. We're doing that a lot. Our legal team is is... I mean, intake has been built with our legal team. Because right now, we have a Slack workflow where everyone's throws their stuff in, they're like, this is annoying. [00:23:04] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:05] S0: Right? And inefficient. So, it's like, great. We should lose Legora for that. [00:23:08] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, you know, what that process looked like?
00:23:08 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang
[00:23:08] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like, you know, what that process looked like? [00:23:11] S0: Yeah. Absolutely. So, it's it's... We do a lot of the due diligence ourselves because we can do it with Tabular Review and other tools. We do still have counsel coming in to, like, assess certain risks or, like, you know, there's payroll, and so Zakura was simple because I was all in Sweden, but, know, we've done one in Canada and one in Australia, and so there's, like, payroll in Australia. Okay. Do we want someone to look at this, like, a bit more strategically? So there, we will still use Legora for the strategic part, they could actually be sparring partners and help us a lot on, like, how to figure out how to structure this the right way, but a lot of the more menial stuff, we could actually just do ourselves. So, like, a lot of the, yeah, a lot of the early things we would find, and we have had cases where we found something that's been, like, a red flag, and then we've we've pulled the brakes. Can you [00:23:55] S1: talk a little bit about any of these? No. Don't think so. Yeah. [00:23:59] S2: Alright. Early on, you said you... Your early customers were Swedish, like Swedish law firms. Have you seen a difference between working with, like, Swedish law versus, like, American law firms, that sort of thing? You guys are mostly working with, like, big, big law firms. [00:24:14] S0: Right? Well, we're also... Smaller law firms also. Oh, No. We we definitely started really, really big law firms, but 50 lawyers also use us and and get a
00:24:14 · Jacob Lauritzen, Shawn Wang, Alessio Fanelli
[00:24:14] S0: Right? Well, we're also... Smaller law firms also. Oh, No. We we definitely started really, really big law firms, but 50 lawyers also use us and and get a [00:24:23] S1: lot of value. [00:24:23] S2: Yeah. So have you seen differences between working with, like, the Swedish ones versus American ones? Maybe, like, even, I don't know, Asian ones? [00:24:29] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the European ones have been a bit slower to move. The American ones are very forward, move really quickly. I think it's also very high on their agenda of the American companies, more so than the European ones, I think. It's like a strategic, super important thing we need to just, like, do a lot here. The American companies generally, both corporates and law firms, also have a much higher appetite to, like, custom build stuff. That's like a thing that they all want to do. Like, hey, we wanna build this, like, huge thing with you guys and, like, structure it in whatever way, whereas Europeans are much more like, we'll just take the off the shelf [00:25:03] S2: and What's an example of something they would wanna build themselves?
00:25:03 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen
[00:25:03] S2: and What's an example of something they would wanna build themselves? [00:25:06] S0: Integrations into their own... Like, some of these customers build their own CRM and their own document management system and their own all sorts of stuff, and they want to build that, and then they want to build triggers that, like, you do a review in in Salesforce and it goes to this one person for whatever reason, and they do something, and then it goes into Legora, and then it goes back in, And there was... So that's, like, the simple end, and there are some that are extremely ambitious, whereas, like, a whole new product that they wanna build with us, and I... You know, we can't really do that. [00:25:31] S2: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:32] S0: But but that's definitely a thing where, like, American companies really want to build their own more than European ones do. [00:25:39] S2: And the European ones are like, hey, like, you know, they give you product suggestions or... [00:25:43] S0: Yeah. For sure. I mean, we have great collaboration with all of them. Yeah. So they'll they'll say, hey, this sucks. This is great. We want more of this, and we'll just build a a product that does that. [00:25:52] S2: Okay. So they don't see, like, an existential threat here in their business? I mean, they Whereas the American ones do, or
00:25:52 · Alessio Fanelli, Jacob Lauritzen
[00:25:52] S2: Okay. So they don't see, like, an existential threat here in their business? I mean, they Whereas the American ones do, or [00:25:58] S0: I don't know if that's the reason that they want a custom build versus not I custom think they both know that this is, like, extremely important and key to their firm's success and their corporate success. So they... It's both extremely important. I think it's just a different way to achieve it. [00:26:12] S2: Okay. Another question I think maybe you you wanna bring this up is, like, product metrics. Like, how do you know that, like, we're actually doing something good here? [00:26:21] S0: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:22] S2: How do you think about that? I'm assuming that's also related to evals.