Decoder with Nilay Patel
00:33:25 · Joey Brookhart, S0
[00:33:25] S4: Yeah. I mean, they have in the new agreement that they signed, they have the right to monetize OpenAI models for essentially not paying OpenAI anything. They're going to have, you know, some interesting things ahead where they monetize OpenAI models or even through like Microsoft three sixty five CoWork and Copilot applications where they're not paying OpenAI anything for a Frontier model. [00:33:51] S0: Support for the show comes from Outshift, Cisco's incubation engine for frontier technology. You can find multi agent AI in every enterprise road map right now. But here's the problem everyone's facing. Agents can pass messages but can't think together. These systems silently underperform through cognitive failures, misreadings, unverified claims, false consensus, and conventional monitoring can't detect them. Outshift by Cisco is building the fix with their new comprehensive resource, the Internet of Cognition. It's an open source guide that's a foundation for building multi agent systems from design to production. The goal is to give agents shared context, shared memory, and guardrails, all to drive the results we actually expect from AI. You can lean on this resource to understand AgenTeq AI's evolution and how it shifted from isolated agents to orchestrated superintelligence. You can gain insights for how to future proof your business by tackling complex challenges with multi agent systems. You can read the paper, experience a demo, grab the code from outshift.com. That's outshift.com.
00:35:05 · S6, S3
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00:36:10 · S3, Nilay Patel, Joey Brookhart
[00:36:10] S3: Why can't we get AI to production? Our competitors are all ready. How do we keep data secure? When do we actually see ROI? All this talk about AI, but talk doesn't transform businesses. AWS AI cuts through the noise, making AI easier to securely deploy and scale. With ready to use agents and the broadest set of AI tools and services, you can build, buy, or partner your way. Stop overthinking. Start building. AWS AI is how. [00:36:47] S2: The other dynamic here, and and you brought it up earlier, is over the last few weeks, there's just been a lot of stress about Neo Clouds, whether they will succeed, whether they will fail. I think Elon Musk said there will be a guppy like extinction event which is just a brutal metaphor to use to describe a bunch of data centers. But these this is a bunch of circular financing and NVIDIA stood a bunch of them up and maybe the hyperscalers are just going to run away with it or maybe Anthropic demands, maybe they will want to own more of their own compute because renting it is precarious in all these ways. What do you make of the Neo Clouds and do you think they're going to survive the market actually shaking its out shaking itself out as these companies go public? [00:37:26] S4: Yeah. Look, Elon is is... Obviously has some incentive to say Neo Clouds are going to be extinct. You know, there's a lot of... And cluster max, someone else just does amazing ratings of the Neo Clouds, there's a lot of like Neo Clouds that are like ex crypto miners that are not good businesses and are not good at operating. And to
00:37:26 · Joey Brookhart, Nilay Patel
[00:37:26] S4: Yeah. Look, Elon is is... Obviously has some incentive to say Neo Clouds are going to be extinct. You know, there's a lot of... And cluster max, someone else just does amazing ratings of the Neo Clouds, there's a lot of like Neo Clouds that are like ex crypto miners that are not good businesses and are not good at operating. And to [00:37:43] S2: point out, CoreWeave is an ex crypto mining company, right? [00:37:46] S4: Yeah, and I don't mean CoreWeave, but there's others further down the list. I think CoreWeave, Nebius, anyone that has backing or backstops from one of the major labs, hyperscalers or Nvidia or Broadcom, is going to be okay. It's that longer tail. Think hyperscalers have been 65% of CapEx and net new compute brought online, so then there's 35% of the market that's non, doesn't have the balance sheets the hyperscalers have. Both Google and Meta have recently raised or announced they're going to raise. When we look at the big four hyperscalers, don't actually need to raise that money over the next two years, even though CapEx is growing from one point two to two trillion pretty quickly. But a lot of these other neo clouds, if you don't have that sort of backing, I think it gets it is very hard, even right now, and becoming extremely difficult if you don't have the backing or backstops from those players to keep building compute. It's a very, very tough financing market.
00:38:42 · Nilay Patel
[00:38:42] S2: One of the things I think is really interesting about Elon in particular talking about Neo Cloud's dying and obviously hyping up his own data center business is he's trying to put them in space and to get away from the backlash in United States around data centers in particular. We have a lot of coverage about data center backlash in United States, it is slowing down a lot of projects. But at the rate we're going, if you think the Neo Clouds are shaky, you might actually end up abandoning a bunch of GPUs and half built data centers or have them tied up in financing agreements where they can't be lit up. What do you make of that? Do you think we actually just need to go to space or do you think that market is going to rationalize and actually take advantage of all the compute that is currently allocated but not being used?
00:39:23 · Joey Brookhart, Nilay Patel
[00:39:23] S4: The market's very good at finding places to put ships. Mhmm. Here, you know, on on the ground, I should say. There will be, you know, politically, you know, we'll see what happens next week with midterms, and kind of the fallout from that. And and obviously, there's some very large sites, you know, still that have massive permitting problems. And then there's there's the entire power equation as we look towards next year. The data centers will will will... They'll be built. There will be a method to get these built. I think the biggest thing, and like the hyperscale CFOs have said this, from like an overbuilt perspective, know, it's on a relative basis, it's pretty cheap to build the data center shell. What they can do if they overbuild is they're going say, okay, we're just not going to take delivery, we're not going [00:40:03] S2: to buy chips, we're not going