Venture with Grace
00:09:26 · Ori Goshen
[00:09:26] S1: So so so Jamba Jamba and Maestro came after, but Jurassic was the first model family that we released, was about a 178,000,000,000 private model back then. It was basically GPT-three, which was 175,000,000,000 parameter and Jurassic that size. So we were pretty early on in training these large models and the models back then were kind of murky. They were very impressive in terms of their what called a few shot capabilities, you would give them few examples, like the task that you want to do, you'd specify it in natural language, and we will follow the pattern and we'll do something interesting like a task you would want to rewrite a sentence or you want to summarize a paragraph, it will the model will understand what you're trying to achieve and given an input, given context, would be able to perform that task. So that was the few shot era, which was again very impressive, but not unlocking all the usefulness that we're seeing in in modern type of models. Then fast forward, back in 2024, we released a model family called Jamba, which stands for Joint Attention and MABA. And it was the first model, hybrid model, commercial hybrid model that combined between mamba architecture and the transformer architecture. That's basically the Bon Ton. And in that paper, we show that you actually can have best of both worlds. You can have the efficiency of the MAMBA architecture with the level of quality and nuance of the transformer architecture if you find the right way to combine them, and nowadays it became pretty industry standard, so if you look at examples like Nemotron from Nvidia and the models by IBM and many of the Chinese labs are training models with this combination of non transformer layers with the classic transformer layers in their neural networks. So you see that this is actually becoming like an industry standard these days. And again, fast forward for beginning of... End of twenty five, beginning of twenty six, we released Maestro, which was an agent orchestration system helping customers, enterprises to build reliable agents and the idea was that this needs to be a model agnostic framework. People can build agents on top of whatever model they want, and you'll be able to scale, test, compute and control a lot of the inner workings of these agentic systems to find the right balance between quality and cost and so on.
00:12:57 · Ori Goshen
So that was an important stepping stone into our focus today. And we are super excited about what we're seeing in the market right now. And there's the reaction and the level of demand. What we do today briefly is providing companies with what we call Lab-as-Service. So basically, it means that every company in the world right now wants to own their own AI. If you think about 2026, it all started with the agentic boom, right? Like, coding agents become super popular, every company, every software department is using it and so on. Now companies are starting to think seriously about how do they differentiate, because if you use, if you rent a model, if you go, if you rent a frontier model, you're like basically like your competitor, you're like everybody else. So how do you leverage the data, the secret sauce, the customer interactions you have with customers to create alpha, to create a differentiated offering in the market? So that's one driver. The second driver is cost. I mean, these models become because the sheer volume and usage, they become more and more expensive in practice when you are trying to apply them on real world use cases. So these two drivers really put a huge amount of pressure on companies to think about their strategy for AI and how owning their own AI is a key part of it. And the problem and the challenge is owning your own AI is hard. You need to know how to train, how to post train the models. You need to, you know, there's a lot of inner phases in training the models. There's the data preparation. There's actually also knowing what you want to achieve.
00:15:20 · Grace Gong, Ori Goshen
[00:15:20] S0: Like, [00:15:21] S1: how do you find what the task looks like? How do you define what good looks like? [00:15:27] S0: These [00:15:30] S1: things are very native and natural for AI makers, but for most most companies in the world don't have, you know, they don't have the talent or the tooling to build their own AI. So so basically, we we decided to help those companies in a shape of Lab-as-Service, which means we bring four deployed researchers. [00:16:03] S0: Mhmm. [00:16:03] S1: So the researchers... [00:16:05] S0: Really like that you create your own keywords.
00:16:07 · Ori Goshen
[00:16:07] S1: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's like, you know, there's a lot of engineering work to be done, but there's also when you are tackling these core business problems, it's actually closer to what people define in research, and I think that could be an old debate about, you know, the borderlines between research and engineering. But anyway, so we bring the FDR, the four deployed researchers, We provide the toolbox that we've created for many years as model builders for ourselves. So how do you post train? How do you evaluate at scale? How do you optimize the harness? So it's not just a model, it's the harness. We have tools for all of these needs. And the compute, would come such a scarce resource these days, even knowing from a company perspective, even knowing what kind of cluster, what kind of compute do I need to train a model that is capable of doing x, it's a challenging question, right? So we basically help with all of that. We bring the compute, we bring the toolbox, we bring the FDRs, and we help companies to achieve that goal of owning their own intelligence and actually proving the value, the business value, that owning your own intelligence. And the reason I'm so excited about this, because I think this is the future. The future is about diversified models, diversified AIs. I don't think there'll be one AI to rule them all. I don't think AI, I don't think even frontier AI is necessary for all tasks. You will have this abundance of different types of AIs. And I think companies will be defined by how good they make and operate their own AIs. And so if we believe in that future, that every company will become an AI company, and the goodness of the company will be defined by how well they own and operate their own AI. So that's a strategic component element, right? So I'm just excited about the opportunity that we have as AI21 creating that muscle for many companies in the world. So yeah, I can speak on and on. I can go on and on about this, but...
00:18:39 · Grace Gong, Ori Goshen
[00:18:39] S0: I have some questions about, obviously I feel like open weight model has been a key word this year as people are really adapting the idea of people stop trying to give out their own data as well as you're also paying for the services and stuff. So I definitely felt like this is a huge trend. So last week, obviously we had Jerry from core automation. So his thesis is like, he's doing something that's completely different. That's not transformer related or transformer slayer basically. So is there any major shift that you're seeing in the space? Is this a new trend of everybody started doing something that's completely different than the Transformers, trying to do everything just automated, like agent stuff? Or first of all, where do you see, is there a major trend that's going on? And obviously I feel like you have a really interesting thesis, which is you use the word of commercialized model or commercialized approach of things. So I think it's really important to think about whether it's monetization or how does enterprise actually interact with AI nowadays? Last week I asked Jerry the same question. So he was focusing on building the lab and not focusing on chatting with the customers. [00:19:57] S1: So
00:19:57 · Ori Goshen, Grace Gong
[00:19:57] S1: So [00:19:57] S0: I think it's really interesting because I think what make the Easter belly companies successful from my observation is you guys really... It's really commercialized. People are really smart on the model side of things, but you guys really focus on how to go to market or working with the company and brands. Maybe we could use any of your portfolio. I know that I believe Deal is one of your clients and Alice, the founder of Alice, was also on our podcast. Awesome. As well as I believe Gong is your clients as well. So maybe we could talk about how do you see... First of all, where is AI going in the general landscape? And then second of all, the approach of when you're commercializing the technology, what are things that you're... What is like a trends that you're seeing in the industry as well as like, how do you basically commercialize the different technology as well?