00:38:42 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:38:42] S1: Interesting. Why do you why do you think, like, looking at your pitch with, you know, now back then, like, why do you think you didn't get in? [00:38:48] S0: I don't know. To be honest, back then, I already realized that that is accelerators took too much or take too much in equity, right, for what they provide. And back then, I wasn't already, you know, that motivated [00:39:02] S1: Yeah. [00:39:02] S0: To get it done because I just apply it and then see what happens. And then if they would accept, then I would start really looking this seriously. [00:39:10] S1: Oh, interesting. Okay. So it was more like an optionality thing. It's a kind [00:39:14] S0: of thing. It happens nice. You know, it's not an option, but it doesn't. [00:39:17] S1: And how much of your own money did you spend between raising money and... [00:39:22] S0: Well, I wasn't working for two years, right? So probably I spent like probably 700 ks on business plus and personal expense. But [00:39:31] S1: that was like a big percentage of your money? [00:39:33] S0: Say again? [00:39:33] S1: Was that a big percentage of your money that way? [00:39:35] S0: Yeah, it was. Yeah. Like I think overall my cost for this year was 1,000,000 plus. Personal Oh, plus. [00:39:41] S1: Yeah. So it's probably like the risk. It's a lot of risk, right? To like spend this out of your own money and like do it. [00:39:46] S0: I mean, to be honest, you're like, I always had this attitude that I can always, you know, make money. So I wasn't really scared at all.
00:39:46 · Nik Storonsky, Henrique Dubugras
[00:39:46] S0: I mean, to be honest, you're like, I always had this attitude that I can always, you know, make money. So I wasn't really scared at all. [00:39:55] S1: So you're like, look. Worst case scenario, if it doesn't work, [00:39:57] S0: I just get, like, a job. Just have a job, exactly. [00:39:58] S1: Yeah. And finance and make millions of dollars again. Yeah. [00:40:01] S0: Kind of. Yeah. [00:40:01] S1: Yeah. Makes sense. That's a really good, like, safety net. [00:40:05] S0: Yeah. [00:40:05] S1: Yeah. Cool. So so then you started Revolut. You got to use first team. And then when you raised your first money? [00:40:11] S0: 2,015 as well. [00:40:12] S1: Was After launch? Before launch? [00:40:14] S0: It was just before launch. So we... I think we closed in May. We agreed to deal in May, and then in June or July, I launched. [00:40:22] S1: What were the kind of, like, early terms back then? [00:40:25] S0: Pretty bad for me. I think they gave me 1 or 1,500,000 at 6,000,000 pre. [00:40:34] S1: 6,000,000 pre? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you my first deal and you can see, you're gonna feel better about yours. My first deal was 300 ks for 60% of the business. [00:40:41] S0: Oh, it's crazy. [00:40:42] S1: In Brazil. So, you know, the market's definitely got frothier since then. [00:40:48] S0: Yeah. No, I think it makes sense. Right? Because reality is, I think bigger than like a lot of companies were undervalued.
00:40:48 · Nik Storonsky, Henrique Dubugras
[00:40:48] S0: Yeah. No, I think it makes sense. Right? Because reality is, I think bigger than like a lot of companies were undervalued. [00:40:55] S1: Yeah. Well, they weren't the big outcomes, right? So it kind of justified the... Yeah. And did you think it was a great valuation back then or no? You thought it was okay. [00:41:04] S0: I was running out of money. I took whatever I had. [00:41:06] S1: But did you think, wow, I got a great deal or now you're like, I got a shitty deal, but it is what it is. [00:41:12] S0: No. I wanted to take money as soon as possible and then I just focus on. [00:41:16] S1: So you want... You're like, hey, I won. You know, I got money, which is what I'm... [00:41:19] S0: Yeah. And then, you know, because I was already fundraising, it was... I spent already like five or six months fundraising. Everyone said no. Oh So for me it was a... So it [00:41:28] S1: was a hard fundraising? [00:41:29] S0: It was super hard. [00:41:30] S1: Yeah. Interesting. [00:41:31] S0: It was London, Plus in London, there is no kind of... Back then there wasn't that much many VCs. So it was very, very hot. [00:41:41] S1: What was the biggest pushback that people had back then? [00:41:44] S0: I mean, they were all selling now. Like, unit economics doesn't work. How you make money? It's monetization. Yeah. They were so kind of spreadsheet focused rather than product focused. And for me, it was always, you know, I'll I'll figure out economics later. I just need volume first.
00:41:44 · Nik Storonsky, Henrique Dubugras
[00:41:44] S0: I mean, they were all selling now. Like, unit economics doesn't work. How you make money? It's monetization. Yeah. They were so kind of spreadsheet focused rather than product focused. And for me, it was always, you know, I'll I'll figure out economics later. I just need volume first. [00:42:03] S1: Mhmm. And was that very obvious that you could... You were gonna be able to monetize to you? [00:42:07] S0: For me, was obvious because, again, this mentality that I can effectively compete, right, with other organizations or other people. Because, okay, I was in Kennerwolf, which is London's foundation center. You look around all these, you know, huge buildings, huge banks making a lot of money. Right? And then, okay, they make money. How come I I wouldn't be able to make money? [00:42:28] S1: So you're like, hey, if I compete with these guys, I'll win. [00:42:31] S0: Yeah. Of [00:42:31] S1: course. So therefore, just need some volume so I get to compete with these guys. [00:42:34] S0: Exactly. Very interesting. And no one believed me at this point. Like, Internet Economist doesn't work. [00:42:39] S1: So the first product was this, you know, you launch. And was it like instant product market fit or it took a little bit to kind of get it right? [00:42:44] S0: It took some time. So it took like... I remember we had one sign up a day, one to five sign ups a day, 10 sign ups. Suddenly, one to 100 sign ups a day. So it just... [00:42:58] S1: And retention was always good from the beginning or no?
00:42:58 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:42:58] S1: And retention was always good from the beginning or no? [00:43:00] S0: To be honest, you were like first three, four years I didn't even measure retention. Right? All those I was so focused on product. [00:43:06] S1: On product? [00:43:07] S0: Yeah. Infrastructure. Product. Product infrastructure. Yeah. Interesting. [00:43:11] S1: And then was it... How long was it just like one product? Or like two, I guess, the wallet and the card? [00:43:18] S0: Not long, to be honest here. So we launched with subtraction and then I started looking into other products like credit, trading. [00:43:27] S1: And then at this point, when did fundraising kind of become easy? [00:43:30] S0: I think second round was easier. Second round was even easier. Fourth round, fifth round, it was like really bumped because that was in a bad economic environment. It So was very hard to raise money. So it was hard. Yeah. Sometimes, like generally every single... Every consequent round was easier, but then sometimes we had bumps. [00:43:51] S1: Makes sense. Makes sense. And then at this point, do you think that the vision that you had back then kind of sticked or like what changed in the vision? [00:43:59] S0: Not obviously changed, right? Because like reality is you never have clearly defined vision or clearly defined idea, right? [00:44:06] S1: Totally. [00:44:07] S0: Like, really need to start working on it to get more information, to build something at the rate. It's like finding a goal. Right? You can try here, you try there. Okay. This thing sticks. You go deeper.
00:44:07 · Nik Storonsky, Henrique Dubugras
[00:44:07] S0: Like, really need to start working on it to get more information, to build something at the rate. It's like finding a goal. Right? You can try here, you try there. Okay. This thing sticks. You go deeper. [00:44:23] S1: And what is... What do you think if you had asked, you know, Nik back then, like, what's the vision for Revolut? What what is a 2015 version of it? What it looked like? [00:44:33] S0: I mean, it was just just a wallet in the card. I I wasn't even thinking about vision. To be honest, back then, I was always skeptical about people who kind of have, you know, great vision for ten years forward. They have strategy. Yeah. Like, I I was never like that, to be honest with For me, okay, that's an obvious problem. Yeah. Let's let's get it done. Move on. Right? That was my approach. [00:44:57] S1: And after you started, like, were there companies that you admired more than others? They were like, oh, yeah, I kinda wanna model these companies. And did you keep looking to China as kind of like model companies as well? [00:45:07] S0: Yeah, looked at WeChat. Think back then I looked at... Because I started looking at tech. Obviously, looked at, you know, big tech successes like, you know, Stripe or Airbnb as well. [00:45:21] S1: But like company culture or operating model, were those the company you kind of looked at? Like Stripe and Airbnb? Because you guys seem to have a very different culture than they do. [00:45:29] S0: Yeah. No. I looked at it, but I was never going deep to understand how that parade. I was just too busy, to be honest.