00:18:11 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:18:11] S1: But it's kinda like a research job? [00:18:13] S0: Yes. Like a research job. So basically what you do, they give you a problem, then you read many, many articles of foreign literature scientists on this problem. Right? Then what you do, you just design certain way to solve the problem that you discovered in these articles, right? Then you effectively program it and start that you calculate certain things, then you write it down. And then I think they resell research to the government afterwards. [00:18:41] S1: So this is the first job effectively? [00:18:43] S0: Yeah. Was my first job. Yeah. [00:18:44] S1: Okay. So you're making some money from this and then you're using it to, I still don't understand a cell phone business. You would like give them money to expand their retail stuff. [00:18:52] S0: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:53] S1: So it's kind of an investment. [00:18:55] S0: Kind of, yeah. [00:18:56] S1: Okay. So they were doing super well just retailing cell phones and you give some some weight. [00:19:01] S0: I mean, didn't work well initially but they then it worked well and then in a year they returned this money. [00:19:07] S1: So how old were you when you made this like first cell phone money, guess? [00:19:12] S0: Like 19 probably. [00:19:13] S1: Okay. So you had some cons like, I made money when I'm 19. I can probably keep making money. Yeah. [00:19:17] S0: Of course. Yeah. [00:19:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think like there's a lot of people that like that's not their... Like, they're 22 and they're like not confident, you know? And I
00:19:18 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:19:18] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think like there's a lot of people that like that's not their... Like, they're 22 and they're like not confident, you know? And I [00:19:25] S0: think that's... [00:19:25] S1: It does seem like a pattern I see in a lot of people who are successful that they're just, like, hyper confident when [00:19:30] S0: they're young. [00:19:31] S1: Had the same thing. I was, like, a 100% sure everything was [00:19:34] S0: gonna work for feel like 100% sure that I can make money. Yeah. [00:19:37] S1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's... I try to describe that to people today. And sometimes I come out as, like, not relatable because people are like, what do mean you were a 100% sure? I just don't know. I was a 100% sure, you know? And I think part of it is then you're pitching, you're doing, you're recruiting, everything, you know, that confidence kinda transpires or Exactly. [00:19:55] S0: You just build a track record on your... Because you're also young, you have a track record, and then you're extremely confident. [00:20:00] S1: Exactly. Okay. So Lehman Brothers, you're trading there, it collapsed, and then what do you do? [00:20:05] S0: So my boss, he actually went to Credit Suisse and then he hired myself with him as well. So he he was hired in Credit Suisse, and then he hired me. [00:20:14] S1: For... Dude, same thing, trading? [00:20:15] S0: Same thing. Yeah. [00:20:16] S1: Trading. Well, funny that Credit Suisse also. Years later. [00:20:20] S0: I was actually... First had a job in Nomura for one month. [00:20:25] S1: To Nomura?
00:20:25 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:20:25] S1: To Nomura? [00:20:26] S0: Nomura. Yeah. But then he kind of hired me from Nomura to Credit Suisse. [00:20:29] S1: Okay. And trading was the same thing. [00:20:31] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Well, but like... [00:20:31] S1: And and and then why did you... Do you think you're gonna have like a long career in Wall Street? Because you you could make a lot of money at a time in Wall Street. Right? Like, if you just like kept doing what you're doing and like big bonuses and... [00:20:41] S0: Kind of, yeah. But to be honest, I was never satisfied because like in trading job, yes, you have P and L but then banks became very political. So there's a lot of people who kind of, you know, lose money but are still being paid, you know, big bonuses as well. [00:20:54] S1: Yeah. Did you get paid big bonus? [00:20:56] S0: Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? [00:20:59] S1: What was your like first bonus? Do you remember? [00:21:02] S0: First bonus. I don't remember. Yeah. But it was like, you know, maybe 500,000 or something. What? [00:21:07] S1: Yeah. But that was your first bonus? [00:21:11] S0: Maybe a bit less, but it was like difficult 500,000. [00:21:13] S1: That like kind of like order of magnitude. [00:21:15] S0: Yeah. When I was like started property trading. [00:21:17] S1: Makes sense. Makes sense. Makes sense. And what were your like kind of hobbies at the time? Like what were you doing as kind of like outside of work around this time? [00:21:24] S0: So I loved the windsurfing. So I started, you know, windsurfing. [00:21:28] S1: Oh, you're... Where did you windsurf?
00:21:28 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:21:28] S1: Oh, you're... Where did you windsurf? [00:21:31] S0: Think initially I started probably in Egypt. Egypt? In the hub. Yeah. That's where I learned And then I actually switched to kite surfing [00:21:39] S1: Yes. [00:21:39] S0: After I went to Dahab or probably I went to Croatia. And then there was wasn't enough wind for windsurfing, but kite... Kites still were kiting. So I decided to switch to kite. Do you [00:21:49] S1: need more wind for windsurfing and for kiting? [00:21:52] S0: I mean, the reality for windsurfing, yes. To really glide, you need more wind. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. [00:21:59] S1: Then you moved to kite setting. What year? Like you said it was like 2011 or something, right? That you moved to kiting? 2012? [00:22:05] S0: Yeah, probably 2011, 2012. [00:22:07] S1: Were a very early kiter. Early. Kites were like kind of dangerous back then, right? [00:22:12] S0: No, not really. Mean, to be honest, I looked at the equipment now and back then, I mean, it didn't change much. [00:22:19] S1: Was it, is it four lines already when you started? [00:22:21] S0: Five liners. [00:22:22] S1: Five. Okay. Because the early early kiting, I think it was two lines that people had. [00:22:26] S0: Oh, It's two, you know. It was already like, you know, four liners or five liners. Yeah.
00:22:26 · Nik Storonsky, Henrique Dubugras
[00:22:26] S0: Oh, It's two, you know. It was already like, you know, four liners or five liners. Yeah. [00:22:30] S1: Makes sense. That was really dangerous. That was like Yeah. You know, there was no way to stop. You could just like get pulled away and... Yeah. Yeah. Then... Okay. So you, you know, you're windsurfing kitesurfing. So you went to Credit Suisse and then you were trading same thing there. Just options. [00:22:44] S0: Options. Yeah. Same same markets. [00:22:46] S1: Making like, you know, hundreds of thousand dollars in bonus and beyond. And then what would happen after that? What did you do after? You got your visa, you said, right? Like... [00:22:53] S0: Yeah. I was already kind of set to leave. I was just waiting for last year for the passport. [00:23:02] S1: Oh, so you already knew you wanted to leave. You just didn't want to leave because of the passport. Exactly. And then you already knew you wanted to start a business or? [00:23:10] S0: Yeah, exactly. I want to start a business and then we are just waiting for my passport to arrive. [00:23:14] S1: And is there anyone you were like looking for like inspiration, you know, or like which entrepreneurs did you follow or track around that time? Like what was... How do you even know like what to start, you know, like what's a good business, all that?
00:23:14 · Henrique Dubugras, Nik Storonsky
[00:23:14] S1: And is there anyone you were like looking for like inspiration, you know, or like which entrepreneurs did you follow or track around that time? Like what was... How do you even know like what to start, you know, like what's a good business, all that? [00:23:26] S0: Good question. I don't remember following anyone to be honest. Yeah. Because back then it was all about banking, consulting. All top graders went into banking consulting. And then back then, no one actually talked about tech and startups. Now everyone talks about tech and startups. It's hot. Right? But back then, I mean, [00:23:45] S1: you think? 2014? [00:23:47] S0: It was 2014. Yes. 2013, 2014. [00:23:50] S1: I remember around this time, I had just started my first business and I heard TechCrunch was like a huge thing for me. I was just like, I was reading TechCrunch a lot and that was like a big inspiration. [00:24:01] S0: Interesting. No. I didn't know anything about TechCrunch. [00:24:03] S1: You didn't know any like like media websites online about tech and stuff like that? [00:24:06] S0: No. No. No. I didn't really, you know, read it all. For me it was because I was in an environment in London. London was really financial capital of Europe, maybe the world back then. And I was surrounded by bankers or traders or salespeople. My friends were bankers as well as, or traders. And no one really talked about startups. [00:24:25] S1: But like when you thought about starting a business, you're like, I'm gonna start the next Lehman Brothers. Is that what's kind of going on to your mind?